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Message
AC Frozen in a Block of Ice UPDATE
Posted on 9/28/21 at 3:37 pm
Posted on 9/28/21 at 3:37 pm
So in july we had AC issues. Had Keefe’s come out and they blew out a clogged drain line. Also recommended that we replace the capacitor and contactor which we went ahead and did. The unit is around 10 years old.
Fast forward to this week and the AC quits again. Turns out the freon leaked and froze the entire unit in a block of ice. Now looking at a full replacement of my unit. I also noticed that as soon as they came out in july, it felt like my unit was “over-cooling” by a degree or two.
I have very little knowledge past basics on AC units. It is getting up there in age. Am I wrong in thinking that they screwed me somehow here? How do we go from replacing some small parts to this?
1. Is it possible that they screwed up the repair and caused this to leak/damage?
Or
2. Is this something that they should’ve caught in july before they charged me hundreds of dollars to replace parts on a unit that was 2 months away from failing.
Or
3. Is this just a case of bad luck and bad timing?
Between this and roofers its been a FUN week
Fast forward to this week and the AC quits again. Turns out the freon leaked and froze the entire unit in a block of ice. Now looking at a full replacement of my unit. I also noticed that as soon as they came out in july, it felt like my unit was “over-cooling” by a degree or two.
I have very little knowledge past basics on AC units. It is getting up there in age. Am I wrong in thinking that they screwed me somehow here? How do we go from replacing some small parts to this?
1. Is it possible that they screwed up the repair and caused this to leak/damage?
Or
2. Is this something that they should’ve caught in july before they charged me hundreds of dollars to replace parts on a unit that was 2 months away from failing.
Or
3. Is this just a case of bad luck and bad timing?
Between this and roofers its been a FUN week
This post was edited on 10/1/21 at 9:21 pm
7
Posted on 9/28/21 at 3:42 pm to LR2RedStick
What do you mean by "over cooling?"
The air out of the vent was cooler than before? Or was it cooling a few degrees below the set point before kicking off?
The air out of the vent was cooler than before? Or was it cooling a few degrees below the set point before kicking off?
Posted on 9/28/21 at 3:44 pm to RaginCajunz
Cooling a few degrees below the set point.
Posted on 9/28/21 at 3:49 pm to LR2RedStick
Was there a leak in the freon in July? Meaning, did they have to charge it up any? I had an older unit using R22 and it seemed to lose a pound or two every other year or so. I'd end up getting a normal service, and add a little, usually around July/August, and it would work great that year and through the next summer, then the heat would hit again and I would do the same. When it got too pricey for that, we replaced the unit last summer. I want to say it was a 2004 or 2006 unit, so to make it 14-16 years is pretty good. If yours is 10 years old, you'll see a greater efficiency and it will do a much better job cooling your home.
As far as them doing something that would mess it up, I wouldn't put it past them. Find a reputable company or contractor that you can trust and it will go a long way. That unit I mentioned I have now replaced was causing me issues, and the guys in their fancy wrapped van showed up and it went from not cooling to somehow not coming on, and he couldn't figure out why. A salesman shows up about 20 minutes later and starts quoting us $14k-22k on new systems. He hadn't even looked at the unit, just assumed it was dead. I thanked them and sent them on their way.
Asked my neighbor for a recommendation since he works for a construction company and always knows a few good subs, and the guy he recommended had my unit working again that night. It was a blown capacitor, and that is when I learned to always have one on hand and how to change them out. I got this guy to do my annual service from then on, and when the time came last year to replace it, I spent about $7k on a new Rheem.
As far as them doing something that would mess it up, I wouldn't put it past them. Find a reputable company or contractor that you can trust and it will go a long way. That unit I mentioned I have now replaced was causing me issues, and the guys in their fancy wrapped van showed up and it went from not cooling to somehow not coming on, and he couldn't figure out why. A salesman shows up about 20 minutes later and starts quoting us $14k-22k on new systems. He hadn't even looked at the unit, just assumed it was dead. I thanked them and sent them on their way.
Asked my neighbor for a recommendation since he works for a construction company and always knows a few good subs, and the guy he recommended had my unit working again that night. It was a blown capacitor, and that is when I learned to always have one on hand and how to change them out. I got this guy to do my annual service from then on, and when the time came last year to replace it, I spent about $7k on a new Rheem.
Posted on 9/28/21 at 4:04 pm to LR2RedStick
quote:
Cooling a few degrees below the set point.
curious as to if this could be anything other then a Thermostat problem?
Posted on 9/28/21 at 4:12 pm to LR2RedStick
By what you said they did in july, none of that would cause a leak since the drain line, capacitor, and contactor are not hooked up to the freon lines.
As some one else said did they add any freon or mention that your unit was low in July? Small freon leaks on older units are common especially in the coils. Have you had the leak diagnosed? did they say where the leak was coming from?
Edit: Im assuming your filter is good and recently replaced, as that can cause your unit to freeze.
As some one else said did they add any freon or mention that your unit was low in July? Small freon leaks on older units are common especially in the coils. Have you had the leak diagnosed? did they say where the leak was coming from?
Edit: Im assuming your filter is good and recently replaced, as that can cause your unit to freeze.
This post was edited on 9/28/21 at 4:20 pm
Posted on 9/28/21 at 4:24 pm to BtonTiger318
Responding to a couple questions here:
No freon leak was detected in july. No freon appeared to be leaking then.
Filter gets replaced every 6 weeks or so on average. The leak seems to have come from a line right outside the main unit. But there is ice coating the entire unit and seeping our from inside the unit. It is literally a block of ice at this point. Its also been slowly dripping into my pan and causing way more drainage to the outside than normal.
No freon leak was detected in july. No freon appeared to be leaking then.
Filter gets replaced every 6 weeks or so on average. The leak seems to have come from a line right outside the main unit. But there is ice coating the entire unit and seeping our from inside the unit. It is literally a block of ice at this point. Its also been slowly dripping into my pan and causing way more drainage to the outside than normal.
Posted on 9/28/21 at 4:28 pm to LEASTBAY
quote:
curious as to if this could be anything other then a Thermostat problem?
Thats kind of what I thought but now that I see the ice all over the unit it made me wonder if they accidentally knocked something loose while they were up there last time. This wasn’t an issue until they did the work. Just very suspicious timing but like I said, IDK enough about these units to do anything other than connect dots that may or may not make any sense.
Posted on 9/28/21 at 4:48 pm to LR2RedStick
If the condenser unit is running well past the set point and the air handler is not, it will cause the lines to freeze up. This is a common problem caused by the contactor on the condenser unit sticking and therefor continuing to circulate refrigerant without air being pushed through the evaporator coil. Contactors wear out frequently (my 4 year old Goodman unit had one fail a couple weeks ago) but they are cheap and easy to change.
It's entirely possible this is what happened and your condenser kept running, froze the lines and coils to the point of rupturing. Coils for some brands are nearly impossible to get right now due to supply chain issues, which may be why they are telling you an entirely new unit is your only option.
It's entirely possible this is what happened and your condenser kept running, froze the lines and coils to the point of rupturing. Coils for some brands are nearly impossible to get right now due to supply chain issues, which may be why they are telling you an entirely new unit is your only option.
Posted on 9/28/21 at 7:36 pm to BassHorn
quote:
If the condenser unit is running well past the set point and the air handler is not, it will cause the lines to freeze up. This is a common problem caused by the contactor on the condenser unit sticking and therefor continuing to circulate refrigerant without air being pushed through the evaporator coil. Contactors wear out frequently (my 4 year old Goodman unit had one fail a couple weeks ago) but they are cheap and easy to change.
It's entirely possible this is what happened and your condenser kept running, froze the lines and coils to the point of rupturing. Coils for some brands are nearly impossible to get right now due to supply chain issues, which may be why they are telling you an entirely new unit is your only option.
Thank you for the response. Assuming I can find coils, would that be the smart move or would I just be putting a bandaid on a dying unit?
Posted on 9/28/21 at 7:40 pm to LR2RedStick
There’s no reason to replace it given that info. Get a quote to repair it. Then consider a second quote.
Go from there. HVAC units get leaks sometimes, they are often are fairly easy to repair or replace a part. One HVAC leak certainly isn’t anything to go starting replacing a unit about.
Go from there. HVAC units get leaks sometimes, they are often are fairly easy to repair or replace a part. One HVAC leak certainly isn’t anything to go starting replacing a unit about.
Posted on 9/28/21 at 7:55 pm to LR2RedStick
quote:
Responding to a couple questions here: No freon leak was detected in july. No freon appeared to be leaking then. Filter gets replaced every 6 weeks or so on average. The leak seems to have come from a line right outside the main unit. But there is ice coating the entire unit and seeping our from inside the unit. It is literally a block of ice at this point. Its also been slowly dripping into my pan and causing way more drainage to the outside than normal.
Loss of refrigerant on a 10 year old unit seems just to be coincidence and nothing to do with they did in July including changing the contactor, capacitor and cleaning the condensate drain. Refrigerant leaks in HVACs that age, particularly in the evaporator coil, are common. But you are stating the leak appears to come from a line outside the main unit - what main unit are you referring to - the outside condensing unit or the inside air handler containing the evaporator coil? Did a HVAC tech use a refrigerant sniffer to identify the leak followed by a “bubble” test? A leak in a line set should be able to be repaired, but a leak in the evaporator coil will usually require replacement of the coil.
Once the refrigerant pressure from a leak declines below the point of a saturation temperature of 32 F (freezing) - the inside evaporator coil is going to freeze as well as other non-insulated areas on the suction/low pressure line set - regardless where the leak is the system is.
Probably with a 10 year old system, a sales HVAC tech is going to suggest replacement of the system. The “average” life of HVAC in the Deep South is said to be 13-15 years. Ultimately it’s going to be your decision to make once the problem is identified but you are going to need a good honest diagnostic HVAC tech to identify the issue - I wish I had one to recommend to you, I don’t, but perhaps others will.
Posted on 9/29/21 at 10:59 pm to CrawDude
Thanks for the responses everyone. Got another company coming out tomorrow to diagnose.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 6:31 am to LR2RedStick
quote:
it felt like my unit was “over-cooling” by a degree or two.
I can tell you that just happened to me like last week. Felt like the AC was crazy cold. My fan stopped working on the outside unit, shich in turn made the compressor overheat and it blew the freon line out. Was a rather violent exlosion of freon, all of it was gone. Had to refill the freon ($50 a lb!!!), replace the drier and fan. I am back up and running.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 2:18 pm to LR2RedStick
If the unit is frozen then everything is working. The problem is you have a freon leak. Freon has a pressure temperature relationship. IF you are a little low and the pressure on the downstream side of the expansion valve is below 32 then it is cold enough that water condensation will freeze and form ice. This starts to block the air flow and you will feel like the blower is not blowing as hard.
Never heard of over-cooling. What you described isn't over cooling, you are freezing from low freon. Best way to deal with this is turn AC off and run the AC fan only. Eventually it will melt that ice and you will notice air coming out of the registers normally. Kick the AC back on and it should blow cold but will probably re-freeze again in a day or two.
At some point the accumulation of leaking freon causes too much pressure drop before expansion valve, and then the unit won't cool.
It sounds like you have a small leak and just need to get it fixed.
Never heard of over-cooling. What you described isn't over cooling, you are freezing from low freon. Best way to deal with this is turn AC off and run the AC fan only. Eventually it will melt that ice and you will notice air coming out of the registers normally. Kick the AC back on and it should blow cold but will probably re-freeze again in a day or two.
At some point the accumulation of leaking freon causes too much pressure drop before expansion valve, and then the unit won't cool.
It sounds like you have a small leak and just need to get it fixed.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 2:28 pm to LR2RedStick
What's the diagnosis from the new company?
Posted on 9/30/21 at 3:46 pm to trident
quote:
Had to refill the freon ($50 a lb!!!)
That must be the newer stuff. R22 was like $110 for the first pound, and $80 for each additional the last time I had mine serviced. One reason I decided to go ahead and replace rather than try a repair and have to add refrigerant again.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 5:41 pm to LR2RedStick
Usually when an A/C freezes it is caused by low Freon or poor airflow across the coils or a combination of both
Posted on 9/30/21 at 9:10 pm to BtonTiger318
quote:
If the unit is frozen then everything is working. The problem is you have a freon leak. Freon has a pressure temperature relationship. IF you are a little low and the pressure on the downstream side of the expansion valve is below 32 then it is cold enough that water condensation will freeze and form ice. This starts to block the air flow and you will feel like the blower is not blowing as hard. Never heard of over-cooling. What you described isn't over cooling, you are freezing from low freon. Best way to deal with this is turn AC off and run the AC fan only. Eventually it will melt that ice and you will notice air coming out of the registers normally. Kick the AC back on and it should blow cold but will probably re-freeze again in a day or two. At some point the accumulation of leaking freon causes too much pressure drop before expansion valve, and then the unit won't cool. It sounds like you have a small leak and just need to get it fixed.
So this is pretty much the information I got today from the second company. He got here late and there was still ice so he thawed out what he could and will be back in the morning to finish the job. Will know for sure but he said this is the most likely culprit. Will keep y’all posted tomorrow.
I’ve already learned my lesson that I’m not using Keefe’s again. They did none of this and literally just told me my unit was dead. Burkhardts is the company I’m using now FYI.
Posted on 9/30/21 at 9:13 pm to Tridentds
quote:
Was a rather violent exlosion of freon
This happened right before everything went out. Felt like my air filter vent was releasing freezer cold air. Makes sense why now.
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