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Need help with a hybrid lifting/cardio program

Posted on 7/19/23 at 11:21 pm
Posted by CrazyCajunDoc
Manvel TX
Member since Jun 2004
37 posts
Posted on 7/19/23 at 11:21 pm
Hi all,

I need advice from the experts here to select a program or programs for the next year. The goal is to help me get into shape to attend the Scouts BSA Philmont High Adventure camp next July. It's a 12-day backpacking trip at elevations up to 12,000 feet for those unfamiliar with it.

The physical requirements are pretty stringent, with a maximum BMI and blood pressure determining if you can attend. Both are measured at the location and are known not to allow borderline cases to complete the trip. I heard of two cases this year of adult leaders that failed, with one being 2 lbs overweight for his height and another for having a diastolic blood pressure 5 points above the maximum.

I am 5' 10" and currently 240 lbs, 23% body fat, 47 years old. The maximum weight allowed for my height is 226 lbs. One option is to lose roughly 20 lbs to give a little buffer while not increasing lean mass. A second option (preferred option) is to get a weight exemption via DEXA, showing I have <15% body fat.

The reasoning is that increasing lean mass and decreasing body fat will make it easier to carry my expected 50-70 lbs pack. The adults typically carry more pack weight than the kids as there is a recommended limit of no more than 30% of your body weight as pack weight. Roughly 25 lbs are gear (ultralight), with the remainder weight as food/water due to the distances between resupply days and limited water during late summer.

I currently lift three days a week (PPL) and consider myself a late beginner with a big three total of about 1000 lbs. I typically lift before work in the morning and then try to walk a mile or two after work a few times a week. At least twice a month, I hike 10+ miles with a 10 lb day pack. My garage gym has two racks with dip and landmine attachments, two full sets of free weights, a complete set of dumbbells up to 85 lbs, an assault bike, and a treadmill. I prefer to lift in the morning before work and perform cardio after work before dinner.

I want a program focusing on the big lifts: deadlift, squats bench press, and overhead press. I am considering completing a beginner's linear progression block (or blocks) and then pivoting to an intermediate program. This is where I need help. My goal here is to get as strong as possible in the next 12 month.

I would also like to increase cardio while trying to minimize the effect on strength gains to help with weight loss. I am considering rucking or using a weighted vest with more walking days than currently. Advice here is also appreciated. My resting heart rate is low 60s, and I would like to leverage targetted cardio to reduce that to below 60 to help account for lower oxygen at elevation. I plan to drop fat to <14% BF while tracking body composition every eight weeks with DEXA.

I use TRT, so my hormones are dialed in. No health issues other than age.

Apologies for the wall of text, but many details here add nuance to my goals. Thanks in advance for the advice.

Edited to add that my diet is running a 10% caloric deficit, and I've dropped 8 lbs in the last six weeks.
This post was edited on 7/19/23 at 11:34 pm
Posted by GeorgeTheGreek
Sparta, Greece
Member since Mar 2008
66422 posts
Posted on 7/19/23 at 11:37 pm to
Pictures of your home gym will help us decide what’s right for you…
Posted by CrazyCajunDoc
Manvel TX
Member since Jun 2004
37 posts
Posted on 7/20/23 at 12:01 am to
Here are two photos I have.

I also have an XPO Trainer 2 push sled and a small cable machine.


Posted by Dobermann
Member since Sep 2008
2032 posts
Posted on 7/20/23 at 7:18 am to
There’s no altitude in TX to train on, period. The best tool you have for acclimating to high altitude is the Texas heat. Cardio training in peak heat has a similar oxygen demand that high altitudes do. I’ve used this strategy preparing for trail runs above 10000 feet. It works. Just be smart training in high heat, hydrate well, know your limits.
Posted by burgeman
Member since Jun 2008
10361 posts
Posted on 7/20/23 at 8:37 am to
Maybe check out Mat Fraser's training program that he partnered with strongman Rob Kearney. It's a mix of the main lifts (bench, squat, deadlift, overhead) and metcons/cardio.

LINK
Posted by hob
Member since Dec 2017
2127 posts
Posted on 7/20/23 at 9:01 am to
I went about 12 years ago. I was 4lbs over the limit. Not sure about my blood pressure.

The clinic at Philmont took my measurements and told me to have fun.

If you're carrying a 70 lb backpack you're doing it wrong. There's a scale at the bus station at basecamp. My backpack weighted 50 lbs fully loaded when I got on the bus. It was just over 30 lbs upon return to basecamp. The difference was food and water. Teenagers make better pack mules than middle aged adults. Split the crew weight up accordingly.

To train I'd recommend a lot of hiking with weight on your back. I recommend you load the backpack and do a lot of hiking. Try different weight distributions in the backpack to see what feels best. It's the proper functional training for your trip. You'll build up cardio and strength. You can do the same with a weighted vest.

Hiking at altitude sucks coming from flatland. Hiking in the midday heat sucks. Hiking in the afternoon rain showers sucks. I recommend your crew wake up early, start hiking, have breakfast on the rail and get to your destination shortly after noon. Setup camp and take a nap during the rain/heat.

Oh yeah, drink plenty of water. Even if you don't feel the need. It's the cure for altitude sickness.



Posted by hogfly
Fayetteville, AR
Member since May 2014
4640 posts
Posted on 7/20/23 at 10:18 am to
I did Philmont as a teenager, and I have adult friends who have done it recently as adults. As the other poster said, you need to hike with your pack quite a bit and in the gear you'll wear.

I imagine you're at least a somewhat veteran backpacker and know this, but be sure your boots are broken in well. This isn't as big of a deal with modern hiking boots, but if you're wearing something heavier like a Merrell Wilderness or other mainly leather boot, be sure you've broken them in. Take care of your feet while there. Blisters will occur and they suck, but you can do a lot to alleviate them with good, dry socks (change socks when necessary) and good, broken-in footwear.

With your size, age and the weight of a pack, your knees are likely going to bother you on long descents. Hiking poles might help.

I would definitely take some extended hikes with a weighted pack. Figure out how to wear it so it doesn't rub you raw when under load. When I was training, we basically hiked stadium bleachers up and down for an hour or more, but actually getting out and hiking is a lot more fun.

Have fun! It's an epic adventure.
This post was edited on 7/20/23 at 10:22 am
Posted by CrazyCajunDoc
Manvel TX
Member since Jun 2004
37 posts
Posted on 7/20/23 at 10:34 am to
Thanks for the input so far.

I’m a “veteran” hiker for living at 16’ elevation. Most of our summer vacations are backpacking in Colorado at elevation. Typically 10 miles daily, but over several weekends a year, not a week plus in one stretch. So much lighter packs and shorter distances. Stamina is my concern.

I assumed I would have the heaviest pack hence throwing out the 70 lb number. I’m the fittest parent by far, and most of the kids are on the smaller side (early teenagers vs. later teenagers further along in puberty), so pack weight will be lower for them.

The Philmont medical crew has become stricter in the last few years, and we were informed no exceptions to the BMI chart or blood pressure.

Edited to add that most kids are aging out this year, which is why the average age is shifting lower. The troop overachieves. The older kids just returned from Northern Tier and both groups canoed over 100 miles in the nine days they were there.
This post was edited on 7/20/23 at 10:37 am
Posted by NewOrleansBlend
Member since Mar 2008
1011 posts
Posted on 7/20/23 at 12:27 pm to
Seems like 3 hrs/week of rucking for steady state/zone 2 cardio, sport specific training, and fat loss would go a long way to accomplishing your goals. Then add in a fairly basic lifting program 2-4 days a week.
Posted by Lawyers_Guns_Money
Member since Apr 2015
393 posts
Posted on 7/21/23 at 7:03 am to
You need to train like a mountaineer that is preparing for a summit expedition out west. I’ve done a ton of prep in this space for big mountain objectives (Rainier, Grand Teton, Shasta, Shuksan) and live in flat land, so I’ve researched everything here.

If you have 12 months to prepare, you have plenty of time. You can easily base your workouts on the main compound lifts you called out, but you need to run, ruck, or do both. As you get closer to the trip (think next year), you need to get more specific and add in dedicated programming (MTN Tactical) or at a minimum dedicated step up sessions.

Here is what I would do:
- 3x Days lifting
- 2x days during week of zone 2 running/rucking OR box step ups
- 1x Saturday longer effort (Rucking on a trail, trail run, etc). Build up slowly over time to 4-6 hour efforts prior to your trip.
- Note: Box step up sessions are a cheat code for preparing for big climbs if you live at sea level. Buy a clicker off of Amazon and start at 500 rep sessions and build to 1k+ step ups. They are incredibly boring, but throw on a Podcast or audiobook.

I would buy:
- 12x18x24 Wooden Plyo box
- GoRuck Rucker with 30lb plates. Buy the plates on Amazon for way cheaper (Note: Rucker should be used for training, I’d take a real pack loaded on long Saturday efforts)

I would consider:
- MTN Tactical programming. Rob offers hundreds of plans and you can pick what interests you in the short term (compound lifts with a little bit of cardio). Look at “Big 3 Strength + 3 Mile Ruck”
- As you get closer, consider specific mountaineering programming. The Greek Heroine packet would be perfect and I’ve used the Peak Bagger plan successfully multiple times.

At the end of the day - Your focus needs to be on building leg strength, zone 2 cardio, and sport specific endurance.
Posted by OysterPoBoy
City of St. George
Member since Jul 2013
35085 posts
Posted on 7/21/23 at 7:15 am to
I don’t know anything about climbing mountains but this looks like excellent advice.
Posted by NOLALGD
Member since May 2014
2231 posts
Posted on 7/21/23 at 10:06 am to
quote:

At the end of the day - Your focus needs to be on building leg strength, zone 2 cardio, and sport specific endurance.


From Lawyers_Guns_Money's post, agree 100%. I really have nothing to add to that, his plan/strategy looks perfect. I do have more general advice. First, congrats on your current fitness level. Second, while aiming for sub 15% bf, you should also aim to get significantly under the weight limit. Yes, you will lose strength, but you can get those gains back after the camp. Second, your knees, ankles and other joints will thank you for dropping weight before the camp, especially since you are over 40. Third, even at 5' 10", 215 or so you will look/feel like an absolute unit if you get close to 15% bf.

So yes, your lifts will suffer, but if this is once in a lifetime event, focus on training for the event first, strength and aesthetics, second.
Posted by CrazyCajunDoc
Manvel TX
Member since Jun 2004
37 posts
Posted on 7/21/23 at 10:38 am to
Thanks so much for the detailed feedback!
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
31037 posts
Posted on 7/24/23 at 7:23 am to
quote:

Seems like 3 hrs/week of rucking for steady state/zone 2 cardio, sport specific training, and fat loss would go a long way to accomplishing your goals. Then add in a fairly basic lifting program 2-4 days a week.


this

sounds like he should just do basic greyskull progression plus the rucking plug in challenge

or do the greyskull gladiator stage 1 & 2
Posted by CrazyCajunDoc
Manvel TX
Member since Jun 2004
37 posts
Posted on 9/28/23 at 9:50 pm to
I wanted to share a status update. I am now an alternate for the Philmont trip. I stepped aside to allow another parent to attend with their child as I volunteered to go as a child-free leader. I plan to do the prep with the Troop and be ready to step up as needed if any other adult has to bow out. Prep shifts to a week-long backpacking trip in the Sangria de Cristos Mountains as a replacement.

My body weight target is 215 lbs by May 1 of next year. My current fat loss rate is ~1 lb per week, which has me ahead of target. Calories are 10% under TDEE.

Body measurements by DEXA (June 1 vs. September 1):
Age: 49
Bodyweight: 257 to 243 lbs
Bodyfat %: 30 to 25
Fat-free mass: 179 to 182 lbs
Fat Tissue: 70 to 55
Neck: 19.7 to 18.9 in
Chest: 48.3 to 49.3 in
Waist: 41.7 to 39.8 in
Hips: 43.6 to 43.5 in
Biceps: 17.2 to 17.0 in
Forearm: 14.25 to 14.3 in
Thigh: 27.6 to 27.5 in
Calf: 18.4 to 18.5 in
Resting heart rate: 67 to 63 bpm

Training improvements(June 1 vs. September 28 in lbs):
Upper/Lower split
Overhead press: 95x8 to 135x10
Bench: 185x8 to 225x7
Squat: 215x5 to 255x10
Deadlift: 255x5 to 295x10

Calculated 1RM gives a powerlifting total improvement from 810 to 1011 lbs. This is approximately where I peaked about ten years ago, but now I have room to keep growing.

Cardio consists of daily walks for 3 miles, targeting <1 hour, during the week and 5-10 miles hikes every Saturday morning. I purchased a weighted vest and plan to add 10 lbs every four weeks to reach a target pack weight of 40 lbs. At that point, I plan to swap over to my trip backpack with filled water jugs.

I also plan to start box steps when I have a free weekend to build one.

Any advice from the experts? I don't plan to change what I am doing until it stops working. If my lifts stall, I will reset twice and then pivot to alternating 531 and PPSA programs.
Posted by lsu777
Lake Charles
Member since Jan 2004
31037 posts
Posted on 9/29/23 at 9:10 am to
:bow:

dats some good shite bro.

i think you are on the right track and should keep on keeping on until it stops working. from there, i suggest going to a 531 template, i suggest beginner prep school to start with but instead of the running, do the walking.

i would milk the frick out of the BPS progression until you cant anymore..

then switch to krypteia
Posted by hob
Member since Dec 2017
2127 posts
Posted on 9/29/23 at 10:08 am to
Great job. You'll do fine at Philmont. You could go today and crush most of the adults that attend.

quote:

Prep shifts to a week-long backpacking trip in the Sangria de Cristos Mountains as a replacement.



Don't settle on being a replacement. There are many opportunities to attend. Find a way and go.

If not that, take time next year and go hike a portion of the AT. You've put the work in so go reap the rewards.

Posted by Duke
Twin Lakes, CO
Member since Jan 2008
35610 posts
Posted on 9/29/23 at 1:55 pm to
tbf, a week backpacking in the Sangres would be a blast. Hardly settling if you ask me.
Posted by hob
Member since Dec 2017
2127 posts
Posted on 9/29/23 at 2:39 pm to
I guess I misunderstood. I took it to mean he wasn't going unless as a replacement. Since Philmont is in the Sangria de Cristos I equated the two.

Posted by PrezCock
Florida
Member since Sep 2019
600 posts
Posted on 9/29/23 at 3:37 pm to
All of this here is good advice. I do 1 or 2 50-60 mile hikes a year and I live in Fl so I understand changing from 20' of elevation to 5,000-10,000'. One thing that I found that helps simulate that some is Blood Flow Restriction on my legs.

If you're interested in it do your research though. If done properly it works extremely well with little to no risk.
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