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Posted on 4/8/15 at 11:10 am to gadknot
Man I am not saying it is or isnt terrible.
I like it better than saves and Holds being separate categories (which I think was an alternative)
But the time has passed to fight it...
I mean who fricking joins a league in its inaugural season shells out 150 bucks and waits until after the season to bitch about the categories?
I like it better than saves and Holds being separate categories (which I think was an alternative)
But the time has passed to fight it...
I mean who fricking joins a league in its inaugural season shells out 150 bucks and waits until after the season to bitch about the categories?
Posted on 4/8/15 at 11:14 am to rondo
I thought my TD league folks would have it under control. Apparently not.
Posted on 4/8/15 at 11:14 am to rondo
Ok Man
Posted on 4/8/15 at 11:18 am to cwill
quote:
I thought my TD league folks would have it under control. Apparently not.
you are on the teet of TDBL haves it seems
Posted on 4/8/15 at 11:40 am to rondo
As I recall, the sixth pitching category was a debate that revolved around the splitting of saves and holds. In other 6 x 6 leagues I'm in, wins are the sixth category, which were universally shot down. Everyone wanted saves + holds combined to provide multiple avenues for relief pitching scoring in such a deep league. Innings Pitched was presented as an alternative and discussed and adopted. I understand the cumulative effect of having an IP limit and an IP counting stat. I think they both serve the same purpose. It protects against a team taking the ratios with three starts per week and punting the counting stats. Having a general Pitcher position instead of SP/RP also allows more flexibility in gaining all the pitching stats. If you choose to go with more RPs you'll punt the IP and QS categories. Lets look at which stats are tied together:
Streaming - Increased IP - More opportunity for QS - More opportunity for S/H ----> Aided by IP Limit (3 categories)
Barely Hitting IP Limit - More opportunity for ERA - More opportunity for K/9 - More opportunity for WHIP - Restricted by the IP Limit (3 categories)
The IP limit restricts some categories and helps others.
If another viable category was presented I would have been for it. As it stands now, I do not think streaming will be prevalent nor gain you an advantage in an inordinate amount of pitching categories. I don't think it's perfect, but there is some balance here. I was not the one that proposed IP as a category, but I do not think it will encourage streaming as shown above.
One potential issue could be the streaming of RPs, which could increase both IP and some ratios, but that would still be a tight wire act for an owner. Plus the transaction limits could restrict that. We can discuss this as the league moves forward. I'm not for wholesale changes, but as with any FB league, if we can find a way to improve the scoring setup, I'd be open to discussing it.
Streaming - Increased IP - More opportunity for QS - More opportunity for S/H ----> Aided by IP Limit (3 categories)
Barely Hitting IP Limit - More opportunity for ERA - More opportunity for K/9 - More opportunity for WHIP - Restricted by the IP Limit (3 categories)
The IP limit restricts some categories and helps others.
If another viable category was presented I would have been for it. As it stands now, I do not think streaming will be prevalent nor gain you an advantage in an inordinate amount of pitching categories. I don't think it's perfect, but there is some balance here. I was not the one that proposed IP as a category, but I do not think it will encourage streaming as shown above.
One potential issue could be the streaming of RPs, which could increase both IP and some ratios, but that would still be a tight wire act for an owner. Plus the transaction limits could restrict that. We can discuss this as the league moves forward. I'm not for wholesale changes, but as with any FB league, if we can find a way to improve the scoring setup, I'd be open to discussing it.
This post was edited on 4/8/15 at 11:46 am
Posted on 4/8/15 at 11:44 am to EarlyBird
the big issue is that IP is the only stat of the 12 we use that doesn't cater to quality. Rather it's all based on quantity. It just doesn't fit.
Posted on 4/8/15 at 11:47 am to Lester Earl
I think the premise is that it's difficult to last long in a game. Therefore there is some skill associated with IP.
Posted on 4/8/15 at 11:53 am to EarlyBird
Collectively IP's doesn't tell you anything in fantasy. It just simply can't gauge quality like every one of the 11 stats we use. Imagine using ABs as a stat. its stupid
Posted on 4/8/15 at 11:59 am to Lester Earl
Bad example. Players get ABs based on their position in the batting order or the score of the game. IP is determined on performance on the field by the pitcher. I understand your point though. There are a bunch of peripheral variables that go into a pitchers IP (such as defense behind him and game situation). But lets not forget that pitchers that eat up innings and are more efficient with their outs are generally lauded and sought after by MLB teams. It should also be noted that such pitchers help FB owners meet the IP minimum more quickly. If you sort the pitchers by IP you'll find that generally the best pitchers will be at the top.
Posted on 4/8/15 at 12:02 pm to Lester Earl
I agree its a stupid stat but it throws in that extra challenge of balancing the ratios and counting stats. There's also no other stat to use.
Posted on 4/8/15 at 12:07 pm to Chatagnier
It's a category. OK.
But why 35 IP minimum?
That's the part I don't get.
But why 35 IP minimum?
That's the part I don't get.
Posted on 4/8/15 at 12:09 pm to MrWiseGuy
I thought I covered that part.
Posted on 4/8/15 at 12:12 pm to EarlyBird
quote:
Bad example. Players get ABs based on their position in the batting order or the score of the game.
ABs, like IP are just unit's of measure that do not quantify the end result. So they are very much alike. Each measure is quantified by other stats, such as hits and BB for a hitter, or earned runs/whip for a pitcher.
A single inning does not determine performance on the field. Well it does, but it doesnt tell you if its good or bad. Not when you can have a terrible inning and still be credited with an IP. Since when do we want to use a stat that you can earn point for bad performances?
quote:
. It should also be noted that such pitchers help FB owners meet the IP minimum more quickly. If you sort the pitchers by IP you'll find that generally the best pitchers will be at the top.
yea but sadly two 5 IP starts by Rubby De La Rosa & Jordan Lyles is > than a 9 IP shutout by king felix.
which is why i said collectively in fantasy, IP tell you nothing. Yes, at the end of the season a lot of the good pitchers will be near the top. Looking at it in that vacuum is fine. But in this world, you can manipulate the stat even with bad or average players/performances. That. Is. The. Only. Stat. In. This. League. Like. That.
The stat doesnt fit this league and the examples that you use to try and justify it are big time reaches. Just being honest here.
Posted on 4/8/15 at 12:25 pm to EarlyBird
quote:
I thought I covered that part.
You said this:
quote:
Barely Hitting IP Limit - More opportunity for ERA - More opportunity for K/9 - More opportunity for WHIP - Restricted by the IP Limit (3 categories)
And this:
quote:
It protects against a team taking the ratios with three starts per week and punting the counting stats.
But I want to know why 35 is the limit? It's just really high.
I thought it was 30 while the draft was happening. It is what it is, so I'm not really complaining. I just want to know why 35 was the number?
quote:
I think the premise is that it's difficult to last long in a game. Therefore there is some skill associated with IP.
And I actually agree with this and am perfectly fine with IP being a CAT.
This post was edited on 4/8/15 at 12:26 pm
Posted on 4/8/15 at 12:26 pm to Lester Earl
I don't think you're bullshitting me. 
Your example is in a vacuum also. The two bad performances outweighed the one good performance - under that lens. But the bad performances came with shite ratios also. It's almost impossible to evaluate a scoring category without finding some correlation with another or some redundancy in the underlying factors. Fielding probably impacts all the stats across the board. I've never professed to be the champion of IP as the perfect scoring category (and I straight up said that earlier). I recognize the issues. But those of y'all bitching haven't produced a single alternative category void of overlapping factors or real-world caveats. Please provide the silver bullet solution. Because I guarantee anything you provide will have inherent issues as well.
Your example is in a vacuum also. The two bad performances outweighed the one good performance - under that lens. But the bad performances came with shite ratios also. It's almost impossible to evaluate a scoring category without finding some correlation with another or some redundancy in the underlying factors. Fielding probably impacts all the stats across the board. I've never professed to be the champion of IP as the perfect scoring category (and I straight up said that earlier). I recognize the issues. But those of y'all bitching haven't produced a single alternative category void of overlapping factors or real-world caveats. Please provide the silver bullet solution. Because I guarantee anything you provide will have inherent issues as well.
Posted on 4/8/15 at 12:30 pm to MrWiseGuy
We didn't use a mathematical formula to determine the 35 IP. It's just a number used in another league. As it stands, across 3 leagues, we have used or are using 25, 30, and 35 IP. We just turned the knob toward 35 because we were familiar with it and feel it accomplishes the goal. We did not feel 25 does that. 30 could be discussed.
Posted on 4/8/15 at 12:32 pm to EarlyBird
I need to get back to work. I'll let someone else that was involved take it from here.
Posted on 4/8/15 at 12:34 pm to EarlyBird
quote:
Please provide the silver bullet solution. Because I guarantee anything you provide will have inherent issues as well.
5x5
Posted on 4/8/15 at 12:40 pm to Lester Earl
That can be discussed, but personally, with so many teams and such a spread out player pool, I'd prefer more scoring opportunities. I say that knowing that a bunch of the categories are tied together.
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