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Started By
Message
re: Coal is dead...
Posted on 3/28/17 at 11:13 pm to bonhoeffer45
Posted on 3/28/17 at 11:13 pm to bonhoeffer45
(no message)
This post was edited on 3/8/21 at 11:26 am
Posted on 3/28/17 at 11:55 pm to graychef
quote:
being given a market advantage because their long-term costs are not felt in the present price of their products.
and Trump just cut the balls off the EPA.
giving taxpayers lives and money away so some company's bottom line shines.
7th generation is the way to calculate. air, water, cost of healthcare.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 2:02 am to graychef
quote:
I can see that point of view. But when customers think about their utility company for a whole 17 seconds per month (receive and pay bill), they mostly don't care about future costs and impacts. They care about today and what they pay right now.
I agree 100%. Thats why externalities are typically dealt with by trying to bring the long-term costs into the present price. That way consumers, or the middle agents that purchase products on behalf of the consumer, like in the energy sector, are faced with a price that attempts to accurately reflect not just the production and present selling cost of the product, but the long-term externality costs that it will produce down the road.
And since we don't just do the simple thing most economists advocate, we end up with a messy, more costly bureaucratic system that tries to achieve the same end goal(or prevent it in some cases) through layers of unnecessary complexity. In this case, we don't account for the externalities so then competing interests attempt to enact regulations and subsidies, then they get countered by counter subsidies/regulations/selective repeals. Which then creates a back and forth of trying to undue one or the other depending on the political party or corporate interests in power.
There is in fact a solution where both liberals and conservatives could get a lot of what they want. You could drastically cut a lot of the EPA, saving tons of tax dollars, while actually raising revenues, creating a more equitable system for consumers and producers in the process, and probably make most environmentalists more happy then under the current system.
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 2:07 am
Posted on 3/29/17 at 3:40 am to graychef
And now we have storage. In Tesla's power battery... Now if we put our efforts to developing more types of tech like that we could bye bye to coal forever
Posted on 3/29/17 at 4:53 am to Eli Goldfinger
But Trump told the people of WV and Western PA he's bring the coal jobs back...
Posted on 3/29/17 at 6:42 am to alphaandomega
I work in the mining industry, world wide coal and other mines are going back to work....
Obama was the worst!!!!
Obama was the worst!!!!
Posted on 3/29/17 at 6:52 am to Spaulding Smails
Can you tell us what percent of U.S. energy usage is renewable currently and how that translates to it being the "present"
Thanks
Thanks
Posted on 3/29/17 at 7:00 am to Eli Goldfinger
quote:
The US has some of (possibly THE) largest natural gas reserves on earth.
This is also true of coal.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 7:03 am to Eli Goldfinger
Coal is not dead. It is probably the "dirtiest" energy source we have, though.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 7:10 am to Strannix
hydro electric accounts for 46% of all renewable energy and of course it's been around forever and environmentalist hate it because.......FISH!
solar accounts for just 4%.
these people that think coal is dead are the same fanboys that think sexbots will replace women.
we still produce 33% of all electricity from coal and that's most likely to increase thanks to trump.
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 7:14 am
Posted on 3/29/17 at 7:12 am to tedmarkuson
Renewables isn't coal's problem, it's cheap, abundant, cleaner natural gas.
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 7:17 am
Posted on 3/29/17 at 7:14 am to cwill
quote:
Renewables isn't coal's problem, it's cheap, abundant, cleaner natural gas.
True. But even though the fuel burns cleaner, the extraction method (fracking) is potentially a pending ecological disaster.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 7:15 am to TxTiger82
quote:
extraction method (fracking) is potentially a pending ecological disaster
No it isn't.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 7:15 am to Eli Goldfinger
If natural gas stays above $3, coal can be profitable. If natural gas is less than 3, coal is a loser in the US.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 7:17 am to cwill
let's see how this plays out as we are now taking the shackles off coal and the price of gas is variable. plenty of room for both.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 7:22 am to cwill
quote:
No it isn't.
Yes, it is. It is possible for something to be both good and bad for society at the same time. Having cheap, clean-burning energy? Good. Being able to light your sink water on fire? Bad.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 7:29 am to wickowick
quote:
Solar is fricking dead as... dead. Coal, it's coming back in a big fricking way.
How much you wanna bet that in 4 years coal consumption will be down while the sale of solar equipment will be through the fricking roof....
The only way that coal survives is eliminating through regulation natural gas and solar / wind projects. A coal fired power plant takes hundreds of workers to keep it up and running while a natural gas plant producing the same amount of current takes a handful. Coal is, literally, a dinosaur....
Having said all of that it is the height of aristocratic misunderstanding of reality for Hillary Clinton to state that she would replace coal jobs with alternative energy jobs. That is all well and good but the transition from one paycheck to another can't take more than one pay period or most coal miners would be in serious financial trouble....it is a grand idea to send the all to school for re-education into modern technology BUT the point is a paycheck, not a skill set.....
Posted on 3/29/17 at 7:29 am to TxTiger82
"[THERE'S] NEVER BEEN ONE CASE—DOCUMENTED CASE—OF GROUNDWATER CONTAMINATION IN THE HISTORY OF THE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF HYDRAULIC FRACTURING [WELLS]"
SEN. JAMES INHOFE, R-OKLA., APRIL 2011
The senator is incorrect.
LINK
gas in well water has been around forever.
SEN. JAMES INHOFE, R-OKLA., APRIL 2011
The senator is incorrect.
LINK
gas in well water has been around forever.
Posted on 3/29/17 at 7:33 am to wickowick
(no message)
This post was edited on 3/29/17 at 7:34 am
Posted on 3/29/17 at 7:40 am to wickowick
quote:
Solar is fricking dead as... dead.
I know it is anecdotal, but I am seeing solar panels now more than ever on peoples' homes.
Solar is not dead.
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