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If Confederate generals were traitors, so was George Washington
Posted on 7/24/20 at 10:36 am
Posted on 7/24/20 at 10:36 am
This was written a couple of days back. I neither agree nor disagree with this article. However, I do find it interesting:
LINK
quote:
The Confederacy has been the excuse for some of today's rioting, property destruction and grossly uninformed statements. Among the latter is the testimony before the House Armed Services Committee by the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley in favor of renaming Confederate-named military bases. He said: "The Confederacy, the American Civil War, was fought, and it was an act of rebellion. It was an act of treason, at the time, against the Union, against the Stars and Stripes, against the U.S. Constitution."
There are a few facts about our founding that should be acknowledged. Let's start at the beginning, namely the American War of Independence (1775-1783), a war between Great Britain and its 13 colonies, which declared independence in July 1776. The peace agreement that ended the war is known as the Treaty of Paris signed by Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, John Jay and Henry Laurens and by British Commissioner Richard Oswald, on Sept. 3, 1783. Article I of the Treaty held that "New Hampshire, Massachusetts Bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia, to be free sovereign and Independent States."
Delegates from these states met in Philadelphia in 1787 to form a union. During the Philadelphia convention, a proposal was made to permit the federal government to suppress a seceding state. James Madison, the Father of the Constitution, rejected it. Minutes from the debate paraphrased his opinion: "A union of the states containing such an ingredient (would) provide for its own destruction. The use of force against a state would look more like a declaration of war than an infliction of punishment and would probably be considered by the party attacked as a dissolution of all previous compacts by which it might be bound."
During the ratification debates, Virginia's delegates said, "The powers granted under the Constitution being derived from the people of the United States may be resumed by them whensoever the same shall be perverted to their injury or oppression." The ratification documents of New York and Rhode Island expressed similar sentiments; namely, they held the right to dissolve their relationship with the United States. Ratification of the Constitution was by no means certain. States feared federal usurpation of their powers. If there were a provision to suppress a seceding state, the Constitution would never have been ratified. The ratification votes were close with Virginia, New York and Massachusetts voting in favor by the slimmest of margins. Rhode Island initially rejected it in a popular referendum and finally voted to ratify – 34 for, 32 against.
Most Americans do not know that the first secessionist movement started in New England. Many New Englanders were infuriated by President Thomas Jefferson's Louisiana Purchase in 1803, which they saw as an unconstitutional act. Timothy Pickering of Massachusetts, who was George Washington's secretary of war and secretary of state, led the movement. He said, "The Eastern states must and will dissolve the union and form a separate government." Other prominent Americans such as John Quincy Adams, Elbridge Gerry, Fisher Ames, Josiah Quincy III and Joseph Story shared his call for secession. While the New England secessionist movement was strong, it failed to garner support at the 1814-15 Hartford Convention.
Even on the eve of the War of 1861, unionist politicians saw secession as a state's right. Rep. Jacob M. Kunkel of Maryland said, "Any attempt to preserve the union between the states of this Confederacy by force would be impractical and destructive of republican liberty." New-York Tribune (Feb. 5, 1860): "If tyranny and despotism justified the Revolution of 1776, then we do not see why it would not justify the secession of Five Millions of Southrons from the Federal Union in 1861." The Detroit Free Press (Feb. 19, 1861): "An attempt to subjugate the seceded States, even if successful, could produce nothing but evil – evil unmitigated in character and appalling in extent." The New-York Times (March 21, 1861): "There is a growing sentiment throughout the North in favor of letting the Gulf States go."
Confederate generals fought for independence from the Union just as George Washington fought for independence from Great Britain. Those who label Robert E. Lee and other Confederate generals as traitors might also label George Washington a traitor. Great Britain's King George III and the British parliament would have agreed.
LINK
Posted on 7/24/20 at 10:37 am to RollTide1987
One fought to liberate themselves from tyranny, the others fought to have the right to own other humans as property. Small difference there.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 10:38 am to RollTide1987
He was a traitor, but he fought for the winner and winners write history.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 10:38 am to RollTide1987
quote:
If Confederate generals were traitors, so was George Washington
Yeah, no shite. All the Founding Fathers were. Why do you think the standard for actually being accused and convicted of treason is set at such a high bar in the Constitution?
Also this:
quote:
One fought to liberate themselves from tyranny, the others fought to have the right to own other humans as property. Small difference there.
This post was edited on 7/24/20 at 10:39 am
Posted on 7/24/20 at 10:42 am to RollTide1987
You come at the King...
Posted on 7/24/20 at 10:43 am to RollTide1987
Either could be defined as traitors. However one “rebelled” against the monarchy in England and the other rebelled against the Republic of the United States. Seems like an important distinction.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 10:48 am to RollTide1987
That point assumes that the reader holds George Washington in high regard. Unfortunately most Americans today despise George Washington along with most of our founding fathers I’d assume. It’s sad. I’d imagine most people don’t even really value the Constitution.
This post was edited on 7/24/20 at 10:49 am
Posted on 7/24/20 at 10:52 am to RollTide1987
quote:
If Confederate generals were traitors, so was George Washington
Technically all of the founding fathers & citizens were traitors bc we were under British rule.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 10:53 am to RollTide1987
Maybe the difference is George Washington was on the winning side. No participation trophies.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 10:54 am to RollTide1987
One more upvote.
Federal power versus State’s Rights was a huge issue way before the Civil War. Learned men during those times, free thinkers who believed in liberty, argued this issue and believed that their state had the right to secede.
Others said no, once in you were bound to stay in the union. You could not leave. Those men led the union and and carried the day through force of arms; thus it was settled.
Thankfully many of those same leaders did not see the leaders of the Confederacy as traitors and despite the hard feelings people came together and even fought together 50 years later in WWI.
Federal power versus State’s Rights was a huge issue way before the Civil War. Learned men during those times, free thinkers who believed in liberty, argued this issue and believed that their state had the right to secede.
Others said no, once in you were bound to stay in the union. You could not leave. Those men led the union and and carried the day through force of arms; thus it was settled.
Thankfully many of those same leaders did not see the leaders of the Confederacy as traitors and despite the hard feelings people came together and even fought together 50 years later in WWI.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 10:54 am to RollTide1987
The whole of the American Left are bigger traitors than any Confederate who ever lived.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 10:54 am to RollTide1987
George Washington was considered a traitor TO GREAT BRITAIN. I still get teased by a Scottish friend that the Fourth of July is Treason Day. But George is an AMERICAN patriot.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 10:59 am to RollTide1987
I love how this is presented as some great insight
As with everything it's about perspective and context. Washington isn't a traitor to us, he was a traitor of the British. The confederates were traitors to us
As with everything it's about perspective and context. Washington isn't a traitor to us, he was a traitor of the British. The confederates were traitors to us
This post was edited on 7/24/20 at 10:59 am
Posted on 7/24/20 at 11:02 am to RollTide1987
The logic of the Pentagon is dumb. The Confederates were not fighting to overthrow the Union or replace the constitution. They were fighting for independence and self determination.
Just because the primary driver of their desire for independence was flawed, does not invalidate the legality of their secession.
The South wanted an amicable split. Lincoln started the war.
Just because the primary driver of their desire for independence was flawed, does not invalidate the legality of their secession.
The South wanted an amicable split. Lincoln started the war.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 11:02 am to RollTide1987
I've thought this for years!
Posted on 7/24/20 at 11:04 am to RollTide1987
quote:
Confederate generals ... George Washington
Which one of these killed more Americans?
Posted on 7/24/20 at 11:13 am to RollTide1987
Rotten nonsense. GW was disloyal to George III, as was everyone else who participated in the American Revolution; R.E. Lee et. al. were traitorously disloyal to the US. That makes all the difference.
Posted on 7/24/20 at 11:18 am to RollTide1987
The South was preserving the spirit of 1776.
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