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Message
Do you feel race relations would be better if CSA still existed.
Posted on 6/1/17 at 7:51 am
Posted on 6/1/17 at 7:51 am
Let me start off by saying that I am trying to be objective in this thread. I would be dishonest in saying I don't have feelings involved (since I hate slavery) but I feel the best way is to have a mature discussion with people you don't totally agree with.
If there was an alternative timeline where the South won the civil war or peace had been made with the Union, do you feel that the plight of slavery would have been resolved.
The Southern states stated in their constitution multiple protections for slavery. It is arguable that the practice could have potentially reached into the 1940s or worse.
If they did willingly abolish slavery, would makes you think the CSA would not become apartheid-based government (ie South Africa). Do you really feel the racial discrimination on that magnitude would be a good thing? There is a difference in living dealing with general life problems and dealing with institutionalized discrimination and hatred.
One positive alternative I have read is that potentially a CSA win would have made achieving civil rights for black a non-issue post slavery. However, I have issues really believing how that occurs since the CSA wanted the right to repress anyone they chose.
For you military aficionados, another scenario would be how WWI and WWII would be fought. There is a strong likelihood that the South would possibly join AXIS powers or that the US/CSA as we know it would never become a world power. Why do you think a nation which abolished slavery would forego that to support a nation that thrives on it. And I doubt the Allied European powers would want that either.
The CSA= Confederate States of America
If there was an alternative timeline where the South won the civil war or peace had been made with the Union, do you feel that the plight of slavery would have been resolved.
The Southern states stated in their constitution multiple protections for slavery. It is arguable that the practice could have potentially reached into the 1940s or worse.
If they did willingly abolish slavery, would makes you think the CSA would not become apartheid-based government (ie South Africa). Do you really feel the racial discrimination on that magnitude would be a good thing? There is a difference in living dealing with general life problems and dealing with institutionalized discrimination and hatred.
One positive alternative I have read is that potentially a CSA win would have made achieving civil rights for black a non-issue post slavery. However, I have issues really believing how that occurs since the CSA wanted the right to repress anyone they chose.
For you military aficionados, another scenario would be how WWI and WWII would be fought. There is a strong likelihood that the South would possibly join AXIS powers or that the US/CSA as we know it would never become a world power. Why do you think a nation which abolished slavery would forego that to support a nation that thrives on it. And I doubt the Allied European powers would want that either.
The CSA= Confederate States of America
This post was edited on 6/1/17 at 8:01 am
43
Posted on 6/1/17 at 7:52 am to volod
quote:
mature discussion
quote:
O-T Lounge
Good luck
Posted on 6/1/17 at 7:53 am to volod
quote:
CSA
what is CSA?
Posted on 6/1/17 at 7:53 am to volod
quote:
I have issues really believing how that occurs since the CSA wanted the right to repress anyone they chose.
Posted on 6/1/17 at 7:54 am to volod
(no message)
This post was edited on 10/27/20 at 11:00 pm
Posted on 6/1/17 at 7:54 am to volod
Race relations were greatly improving until we had a president set them back 30 years.
The most discriminated against person in the USA today is a straight white male but we can't say that or mass hysteria will ensue.
The most discriminated against person in the USA today is a straight white male but we can't say that or mass hysteria will ensue.
Posted on 6/1/17 at 7:54 am to volod
quote:
Do you feel race relations would be better if CSA still existed.
Posted on 6/1/17 at 7:56 am to volod
No. No they wouldn't.
Posted on 6/1/17 at 7:58 am to volod
quote:
I would be dishonest in saying I don't have feelings involved (since I hate slavery)
That's a strong stance to take.
This post was edited on 6/1/17 at 8:00 am
Posted on 6/1/17 at 7:58 am to volod
quote:
Do you feel race relations would be better if CSA still existed.
lol of course not.
Radical Reconstruction basically set back the South for decades. It was bad for the south.
If John Wilkes Booth had not shot Lincoln, then the south's reintegration into the Union probably would have gone a lot better.
This post was edited on 6/1/17 at 7:59 am
Posted on 6/1/17 at 8:01 am to volod
quote:
RACE relations would be better
If we would eliminate the word "race".
Posted on 6/1/17 at 8:07 am to volod
When slavery was abolished you had the government essentially taking away what people considered their property at that time. This is why there was so much animosity towards black people, but I will say that even supporters of abolition didn't exactly think that black people equal to whites.
I think racism would still exist, but Jim Crow laws would never have existed had the south ended slavery voluntarily. I think over time with pressures from Europe as well as increasing technological innovation, they would have.
I think that history has taught us though that the succeeding from the Union was the wrong thing to do. The South didn't have the industry to maintain much of an industry outside of crops, and I think you'd end up with a country that looks a lot like middle American/south American nations where the poor are very poor and the rich are very rich.
I think racism would still exist, but Jim Crow laws would never have existed had the south ended slavery voluntarily. I think over time with pressures from Europe as well as increasing technological innovation, they would have.
I think that history has taught us though that the succeeding from the Union was the wrong thing to do. The South didn't have the industry to maintain much of an industry outside of crops, and I think you'd end up with a country that looks a lot like middle American/south American nations where the poor are very poor and the rich are very rich.
This post was edited on 6/1/17 at 8:11 am
Posted on 6/1/17 at 8:09 am to volod
According to the great philosopher and poet Bocephus, if the south woulda won, we woulda had it made.
Posted on 6/1/17 at 8:14 am to volod
Race relations would be better if we stopped making everything about race
Many blacks would be doing better if nearly 80% of them weren't born out of wedlock
Many blacks would be doing better if nearly 80% of them weren't born out of wedlock
Posted on 6/1/17 at 8:19 am to volod
There will never be equality. It's not natural. Our cells are killing eachother, planets collide, animals kill eachother to eat, competition runs life--regardless of if the CSA were around or not things would be no better than they are now.
Posted on 6/1/17 at 8:25 am to volod
And let me say one more thing...ive been reading these threads about the statues and I want to say this...they were leading an armed rebellion against the United States of America and fighting for the creation of a slave holding empire.They should have all been shot for treason.
Posted on 6/1/17 at 8:26 am to volod
This a bad thread idea
Posted on 6/1/17 at 8:33 am to volod
Obviously, slavery in the south would have lasted longer if the CSA still existed. How long it would have existed is hard to know. The ease of communication at the turn of the century compared to previous times really exposed evils in the world that previously could get swept under the rug, so I don't think it would have lasted a lot longer, as in I don't think it makes it into the 1900's. So in that sense, it would have delayed relations somewhat. Who knows exactly how long....20, 30, 40 years???
Now if the CSA existed along side the Union and they both shut off slavery at the exact same time, then I don't think it changes a thing. Although slavery was a huge part of the CW, it's not like the North was full of SJW's. It was much easier for them to call slavery a bad thing since it wasn't tied to their economy as tightly. But that doesn't mean they were all hugs and kisses to African Americans. They just didn't have to deal with the integration as much, that's one reason they didn't quite have the issues the south had. I think widespread transportation of information (images/reports/video of injustices) forces CSA to make integration reform in nearly the same way in order to keep it's economy in shape due to world political influence.
I truly hate the false narrative that Lincoln and the North freed the slaves. I do feel it was the cause of the war, but I don't think that Lincoln should quite be praised the way he is. We are tearing down statues where men publicly stated they were against slavery, but were tied to their state, so they fought for that state's cause. Yet we praise Lincoln for freeing slaves, when he didn't free all slaves with the Emancipation Proclimation. Only those in the CSA and it was done not for justice, but to hurt the South politically. He did not abolish it in Union states....so did he really care about slaves the way history makes it seem? And his stance on freed African Americans was atrocious. He thought they were less than whites and should be shipped off to their own colony. Yet we aren't thinking of changing school names or tearing down the Lincoln monument.
Now if the CSA existed along side the Union and they both shut off slavery at the exact same time, then I don't think it changes a thing. Although slavery was a huge part of the CW, it's not like the North was full of SJW's. It was much easier for them to call slavery a bad thing since it wasn't tied to their economy as tightly. But that doesn't mean they were all hugs and kisses to African Americans. They just didn't have to deal with the integration as much, that's one reason they didn't quite have the issues the south had. I think widespread transportation of information (images/reports/video of injustices) forces CSA to make integration reform in nearly the same way in order to keep it's economy in shape due to world political influence.
I truly hate the false narrative that Lincoln and the North freed the slaves. I do feel it was the cause of the war, but I don't think that Lincoln should quite be praised the way he is. We are tearing down statues where men publicly stated they were against slavery, but were tied to their state, so they fought for that state's cause. Yet we praise Lincoln for freeing slaves, when he didn't free all slaves with the Emancipation Proclimation. Only those in the CSA and it was done not for justice, but to hurt the South politically. He did not abolish it in Union states....so did he really care about slaves the way history makes it seem? And his stance on freed African Americans was atrocious. He thought they were less than whites and should be shipped off to their own colony. Yet we aren't thinking of changing school names or tearing down the Lincoln monument.
Posted on 6/1/17 at 8:39 am to volod
You know volod, to he honest, I like your discussion threads. They always seem genuine.
It's not so much a CSA issue, but it is a federal government overreach issue. There is no doubt slavery needed to end, but the way in which they tried to then integrate two completely seperate cultures and societies has been studied many times over as an example of complete failure.
They would be better without forced integration by the federal government.
They should've outlawed slavery and then allowed the South to integrate naturally. Forced integration caused hatred to dig in its heels, white flight, education district bussing, neighborhood segregation, etc....
Plenty of Southern Leaders of the time saw slavery as an evil that would end and knew that the black community would take some time to integrate into society, but the federal government forcing it to happen gave all the idiot racists a cause to rally around.
MLK Jr himself believed in this. One of his best speeches was about just going to work. He said if you want people to respect you and accept you you should just go about your day. Go to work, go to school, be the best you can be and show people you deserve to be there. Do not sip from the cup of bitterness and hatred but demonstrate on the highest plane.
Respect isn't given and it can't be dictated. It has to be earned.
The Civil War is a brilliant "winners right the history books" example. The North didn't abolish slavery in itself until well after the Civil War. The Civil War was fought to preserve the union and the country as a whole. The South wanted to form its own county with a small federal government and large protections for individual state rights. The north believed in ruling from the federal government. No president in history shite on the constitution more than Abraham Lincoln. It was never ever about slavery until Lincoln needed a cause for the north to rally around.
The South then and into today are still fighting to just be left the frick alone and let us figure it out. The North and the federal government still fight everyday to mingle too far into state's and personal rights.
I've said this before, but it infuriates me when some mouth breathing kunt from the north east or California tries to preach to me or teach me about race relations.
I live in a city thats 60% black and I grew up my whole life with black friends and co-workers and in laws and family members and interactions every single day. I'll be goddamned if some over educated lilywhite segregated fricknut from a gated community in the north is going to try to tell me what I don't understand about race relations.
quote:
Do you feel race relations would be better if CSA still existed.
It's not so much a CSA issue, but it is a federal government overreach issue. There is no doubt slavery needed to end, but the way in which they tried to then integrate two completely seperate cultures and societies has been studied many times over as an example of complete failure.
They would be better without forced integration by the federal government.
They should've outlawed slavery and then allowed the South to integrate naturally. Forced integration caused hatred to dig in its heels, white flight, education district bussing, neighborhood segregation, etc....
Plenty of Southern Leaders of the time saw slavery as an evil that would end and knew that the black community would take some time to integrate into society, but the federal government forcing it to happen gave all the idiot racists a cause to rally around.
MLK Jr himself believed in this. One of his best speeches was about just going to work. He said if you want people to respect you and accept you you should just go about your day. Go to work, go to school, be the best you can be and show people you deserve to be there. Do not sip from the cup of bitterness and hatred but demonstrate on the highest plane.
Respect isn't given and it can't be dictated. It has to be earned.
The Civil War is a brilliant "winners right the history books" example. The North didn't abolish slavery in itself until well after the Civil War. The Civil War was fought to preserve the union and the country as a whole. The South wanted to form its own county with a small federal government and large protections for individual state rights. The north believed in ruling from the federal government. No president in history shite on the constitution more than Abraham Lincoln. It was never ever about slavery until Lincoln needed a cause for the north to rally around.
The South then and into today are still fighting to just be left the frick alone and let us figure it out. The North and the federal government still fight everyday to mingle too far into state's and personal rights.
I've said this before, but it infuriates me when some mouth breathing kunt from the north east or California tries to preach to me or teach me about race relations.
I live in a city thats 60% black and I grew up my whole life with black friends and co-workers and in laws and family members and interactions every single day. I'll be goddamned if some over educated lilywhite segregated fricknut from a gated community in the north is going to try to tell me what I don't understand about race relations.
This post was edited on 6/1/17 at 9:19 am
Posted on 6/1/17 at 8:41 am to volod
Race relations would be exponentially better if the cultural Marxists were wiped from the face of the earth
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