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Message
re: Hypocrisy of those who denigrate Dale Brown's accomplishments
Posted on 3/26/17 at 10:56 am to tigersbb
Posted on 3/26/17 at 10:56 am to tigersbb
quote:
Yes the program declined, but you cannot lay all the blame on Dale Brown. Dale signed the number one recruit in the country, Randy Livingston in 1993. That summer Livingston sustained a devestating knee injury and was never really the same again. When he was able to play Liivngston was at about 75% of his true ability and was still the best player on the court. Unfortunately, injuries continued to derail his seasons at LSU and the program began to slide.
I won't deny how good Livingston could have been, but in earlier years when Dale was more invested we managed to overcome key losses.
Macklin was lost for the year in '79 to injury. His jersey hangs in the PMAC, yet we still won the SEC that year.
Scales left after '80 unexpectedly as it was rare in those days for players to leave early, yet we made the Final Four.
Nikita Wilson had to sit out the second half of the '86 season, yet we made the Final Four.
Blanton injured early in the year missed the '87 Elite 8 run.
But Dale had really started to let things slip. With Livingston out we had Henderson and really not much else.
Earl was overrated and Dale really sold his soul to try to salvage his legacy. I don't agree at all Earl would have made a difference. He was a role player at the end of his career at Kansas.
1
Posted on 3/26/17 at 11:22 am to Tiger Ugly
quote:
I won't deny how good Livingston could have been, but in earlier years when Dale was more invested we managed to overcome key losses.
While the talent level did slip Livingston was so good at making every one around him notches better. He had an incredible feel for the game and the team would have continued its NCAA tournament run. Remember they were 4-0 in the SEC when he was lost for the season with his last knee injury in 1995.He was Superman in the last five minutes of a close game.
My point on Earl and Powell was that Dale was still recruiting high level talent, he id not just get lazy as some have contended. Who knows? If Earl had stayed at LSU and avoided all of the swirling mess that surrounded him his career as a featured player and Brown's last two years could have turned out differently.
Any knowledgeable LSU fan would agree that what Dale Brown achieved was incredible when placed in historical perspective. Yet some would only focus on the last four seasons or on what was not accomplished while failing to credit him for the phenomenal things he was able to do.
Posted on 3/26/17 at 11:25 am to Rudy40
Fess Irvin hits two free throws, Knight is a loser that night, or did Knight make number 4 Miss?
Posted on 3/26/17 at 11:36 am to tigersbb
Who has ever been better than Dale at LSU? Brought us to final fours, brought us CJ and Shaq and gave the NCAA a hard time. All while bringing a level of integrity that is unparalleled. Maybe we should hire Coach Cal, or Steve Fisher hang a banner from the roof for 2 years then have it ripped down because we were cheating?
This post was edited on 3/26/17 at 12:08 pm
Posted on 3/27/17 at 6:57 am to tigersbb
quote:
My point on Earl and Powell was that Dale was still recruiting high level talent, he id not just get lazy as some have contended. Who knows? If Earl had stayed at LSU and avoided all of the swirling mess that surrounded him his career as a featured player and Brown's last two years could have turned out differently.
Not really IMHO. My point was he used to have enough talent to sustain significant losses. Toward the end he did not. Earl was overrated and Powell never really amounted to much either. Evaluation is part of that.
Livingston healthy may have prolonged Dale's career another year or two as a healthy Livingston would certainly have only played here a year or two. Earl staying would have done nothing IMHO, he just was not very good honestly.
Dale by his own admission had stopped recruiting hard (he says cause he thought he could coach anyone up). I can remember in that era the state championship tourney for high school in La. used to be in the Assembly center. A local radio sports show was there and they interviewed Perry Clark who was at the time the Tulane coach. He was saying he was there to see Dale, why isn't Dale here I want to talk to Dale. Making a big joke of it but I think it was telling.
I was never a Dale fan, his drama and BS always annoyed me. But I am an LSU hoops fan and I appreciate the memories his teams gave me.
But he drove the program into the ground hard at the end and left a pretty big mess.
Posted on 3/27/17 at 9:34 am to Tiger Ugly
"he was not very good"
Earl had his talents, but scoring outside 2 ft was not one. The guy could run up and down the court all night, jump out of the gym, protect the rim, dunk with the best, and he played hard as anyone.
Everyone wanted Earl out of HS and he played a lot of ball at Kansas. To list him as some kiinda talent evaluation screw up is a mighty big stretch. IMO
Randy was an amazing point guard and his loss to LSU as a leader on the court was a massive blow to the program at that point in time.
'
Earl had his talents, but scoring outside 2 ft was not one. The guy could run up and down the court all night, jump out of the gym, protect the rim, dunk with the best, and he played hard as anyone.
Everyone wanted Earl out of HS and he played a lot of ball at Kansas. To list him as some kiinda talent evaluation screw up is a mighty big stretch. IMO
Randy was an amazing point guard and his loss to LSU as a leader on the court was a massive blow to the program at that point in time.
'
Posted on 3/27/17 at 10:47 am to Lonnie4LSU
quote:
Randy was an amazing point guard and his loss to LSU as a leader on the court was a massive blow to the program at that point in time.
The day Livingston blew out his knee was the day the music died for LSU basketball. He was good enough to team with Ronnie Henderson along wit Jamie Brandon and Clarence Caesar to lead LSU deep into the tournament. They were a bit undersized but Livingston just had that it factor. Too bad we only got a brief glimpse of his magic.
Posted on 3/27/17 at 12:16 pm to Lonnie4LSU
quote:
he guy could run up and down the court all night, jump out of the gym, protect the rim, dunk with the best, and he played hard as anyone.
All I can tell you is it was obvious in the few games he did play with us he was a very good athelete who was very limited as a basketball player and his career at Kansas further punctuated that. He would not have helped Dale had he stayed. Alot of folks evaluated him as better and they missed the boat on him too.
quote:
Randy was an amazing point guard and his loss to LSU as a leader on the court was a massive blow to the program at that point in time.
'
I interpreted your point to be Dale may not have slipped had Randy been healthy. My take is yes they would have. The contingency talent he used to stockpile to overcome such things was no longer there.
Folks knew you could send tapes of yourself diving all over the floor and Dale might sign you. Or a 7-footer from Yugoslovia who was offered a schollie sight un-seen and ends up getting here and being 6-5.
Got an overinflated sense of his motivational and coaching skills and let the depth slip to the point that it got really ugly at the end. Earl would not have made that last team much better at all.
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:53 pm to Tiger Ugly
"they missed the boat on him too"
Out of HS, Earl was a national player of the yr. finalists and lead GOHS to 3 state titles. The guy averaged like 26 pts., 15 rbs., and 5 bls. a game as a sr. Every school in the nation had him on their wish list. Using him as an example of poor player evaluation by Brown is nuts.
"had Randy been healthy"
Randy was national player of the yr. in HS not once but twice. He was viewed so talented that he made the La. top 100 HS basketball players in history 1st team. I don't think there is a doubt that having a talent like that at the pt. guard position could have had a major impact on LSU basketball.
Out of HS, Earl was a national player of the yr. finalists and lead GOHS to 3 state titles. The guy averaged like 26 pts., 15 rbs., and 5 bls. a game as a sr. Every school in the nation had him on their wish list. Using him as an example of poor player evaluation by Brown is nuts.
"had Randy been healthy"
Randy was national player of the yr. in HS not once but twice. He was viewed so talented that he made the La. top 100 HS basketball players in history 1st team. I don't think there is a doubt that having a talent like that at the pt. guard position could have had a major impact on LSU basketball.
Posted on 3/27/17 at 2:56 pm to Tiger Ugly
quote:
All I can tell you is it was obvious in the few games he did play with us he was a very good athelete who was very limited as a basketball player and his career at Kansas further punctuated that. He would not have helped Dale had he stayed. Alot of folks evaluated him as better and they missed the boat on him too.
While Lester may not have lived up to his high school billing he would have been a step up for LSU at center given they had to rely on Roman Rubchenko and Nick Sheppard to man the middle in 1996 and 1997. Duane Spencer was more of small forward at the time. Had Corey Powell become eligible it would have helped stockpile the depth you correctly referred to.
The descent of the program may not have been so dramatic with a healthy Livingston and Earl staying home. They may have remained in the top half of the SEC and possibly made the NCAA tournament at least with Randy in the lineup. He was truly a special player who elevated his team around him with his leadership, court presence and basketball IQ, the kid was simply a winner.
While it may seem clear it was time for Dale to retire there was also reason for optimism. Unfortunate circumstances also intervened to jettison success.
Posted on 3/27/17 at 3:46 pm to go ta hell ole miss
"A level of integrity that is unparalleled"? Dale Brown? Guess he went out to L.A. and got J.Williams legit? Or perhaps the money men in Lafayette who were paying him cash under the table to match his paycheck for summer work...Dale was not aware of that situation, right? And Dale's money man assistant coach, who lost his briefcase full of cash while recruiting Chris Jackson, that was just a coincidence, right? The Cookie Man, he came down from up north for free, too, right? Dwayne Scales did nothing for free. Stanley Roberts, #1 high school player in the country, can all the way over from So. Carolina because he liked cajun food..which he immediately began to consume by the buckets full....right? etc etc etc.
Posted on 3/27/17 at 3:57 pm to Keltic Tiger
"unparalleled level of integrity"
Posted on 3/27/17 at 4:12 pm to nitwit
On a positive note Dale was the first of 177 inductees to the Assquatch hall of fame and is it's director.
He makes quite a good living as a hunting guide for Assquatch unlimited. He operates world wide and offers discounts to former LSU players who feel they were underpaid while at the university.
He makes quite a good living as a hunting guide for Assquatch unlimited. He operates world wide and offers discounts to former LSU players who feel they were underpaid while at the university.
This post was edited on 3/27/17 at 11:44 pm
Posted on 3/27/17 at 4:26 pm to bengalfan50
What a douche. I bet it sounded good when you told this to other douches.
Posted on 3/27/17 at 4:29 pm to Keltic Tiger
quote:
"A level of integrity that is unparalleled"? Dale Brown? Guess he went out to L.A. and got J.Williams legit? Or perhaps the money men in Lafayette who were paying him cash under the table to match his paycheck for summer work...Dale was not aware of that situation, right? And Dale's money man assistant coach, who lost his briefcase full of cash while recruiting Chris Jackson, that was just a coincidence, right? The Cookie Man, he came down from up north for free, too, right? Dwayne Scales did nothing for free. Stanley Roberts, #1 high school player in the country, can all the way over from So. Carolina because he liked cajun food..which he immediately began to consume by the buckets full....right? etc etc etc.
Do you have concrete evidence of all o f this or do you just assume it?
Whether Ron Abernathy's suitcase of cash was for a recruit or not he was in Biloxi recruiting Kenny Jimmerspn not Chris Jackson when the money was stolen.
Posted on 3/27/17 at 4:56 pm to Chaseff
quote:
To you idiots who say Dale Brown was a bad coach, he didn't make two Final 4's, two more Elite 8's, one more Sweet 16, four SEC Titles, one SEC Tournament Title, and make to 13 NCAA (which is five more times than all the other LSU basketball teams combined)
this this! and all of this!
dale was a great coach. its not like the SEC wasn't loaded with talent in teams like Florida (M&M) and the perennial giant, Ky.
Posted on 3/27/17 at 4:58 pm to CAD703X
What other basketball coach in the history of college basketball would be so loyal to his players that he would round up the other players and go after the people who mugged Jose with baseball bats?
Posted on 3/27/17 at 5:01 pm to CAD703X
How is this thread still going?
Posted on 3/27/17 at 6:07 pm to tigersbb
Dale was Dale. He was a salesman, recruited fairly well, had some very good teams that smoked a lot of good basketball teams, took 2 teams to the Final Four (one of which was a great team and another that really had no business being there), did a lot to ease race relations in Louisiana and the SEC, had teams and players that were fun to watch and filled the Assembly Center with fans, his players liked him and played hard, beat Kentucky enough to make its fans respect him. He also wasn't a very good bench coach, was kinda nuts, and probably should have hung it up before he did.
I was a sophomore at LSU when he came along and enjoyed the hell out of his being there for 20 years. Dale was an institution at LSU. Nobody knows if anybody else LSU could have hired would have been more successful than he. He and LSU had a great ride together.
I was a sophomore at LSU when he came along and enjoyed the hell out of his being there for 20 years. Dale was an institution at LSU. Nobody knows if anybody else LSU could have hired would have been more successful than he. He and LSU had a great ride together.
Posted on 3/27/17 at 7:18 pm to tigersbb
I once sent Daddy Dale a diagramed in bounds play that read... do not allow Vernell Singleton to bring the ball in.
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