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Started By
Message
re: Why Trump’s executive order on sanctuary cities is unconstitutional
Posted on 1/26/17 at 1:30 pm to dkreller
Posted on 1/26/17 at 1:30 pm to dkreller
quote:
So you're saying that a state could essentially shrewd its state constitution (assuming it could get the votes) and become the first communist state of the US and completely disregard the US constitution?
They are obligated to follow federal law, but not enforce it.
Posted on 1/26/17 at 1:32 pm to NOFOX
according to the DOJ memo i linked, the statute requires states to abide by all federal laws
so if they violate 1373 (which i linked), they are subject to losing the grants and possible penalties
so if they violate 1373 (which i linked), they are subject to losing the grants and possible penalties
Posted on 1/26/17 at 1:32 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
that is the case that said feds could impose mandatory drinking ages on states or the states could have funding withheld
that case established a judicial framework/analysis. as long as Trumps's EOs fit within that analysis, they're fine
There are a lot of conditions to that case. That was a statute that spelled out 5% of highway funds would be withheld, not 100%.
The Court shot down Barry conditioning all medicaid funds on states adopting medicaid expansion. It was unconstitutional coercsion of the states.
Posted on 1/26/17 at 1:32 pm to CommoDawg
quote:
They are obligated to follow federal law, but not enforce it.
That makes no sense.
Posted on 1/26/17 at 1:34 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Now they are going to play nice!
so if they violate 1373 (which i linked), they are subject to losing the grants and possible penalties
Posted on 1/26/17 at 1:34 pm to CommoDawg
It was unconstitutional for AZ to enforce immigration but it is A-Okay for states and (more laughable) cities to make up and enforce their own laws of immigration. That is called a logic fail.
Posted on 1/26/17 at 1:34 pm to Dale51
quote:
That makes no sense.
it makes total sense
states have certain powers
fedgov has certain powers
fedgov can do whatever it wants within its federal power (Which is a frickton)
states can do whatever they want as long as they don't violate the above federal law
states do not have to use their resources to enforce federal law (But they can). they have the option
*ETA: obviously states and fedgov cannot violate what little is left of constitutional protections of individuals
This post was edited on 1/26/17 at 1:39 pm
Posted on 1/26/17 at 1:36 pm to SlowFlowPro
Culberson touted the Justice Department’s move.
“State and local governments must now choose between receiving federal law enforcement grant money or protecting dangerous criminal illegal aliens. They can no longer do both,” he said in a statement.
“State and local governments must now choose between receiving federal law enforcement grant money or protecting dangerous criminal illegal aliens. They can no longer do both,” he said in a statement.
Posted on 1/26/17 at 1:36 pm to Dale51
quote:
They are obligated to follow federal law, but not enforce it.
That makes no sense.
You cannot commit tax fraud, but as an uninvolved third party you have no duty to stop it. Make sense now?
Eta:
If you help commit the tax fraud, you are now an accessory and guilty of tax fraud. Clearer?
This post was edited on 1/26/17 at 1:41 pm
Posted on 1/26/17 at 1:37 pm to SlowFlowPro
Great thread Soflowpro! Why I come here
Posted on 1/26/17 at 1:37 pm to CommoDawg
quote:
State and city officials are not obligated to enforce federal laws.
Thats true, but you miss a crucial point...
the federal government is not obligated to give it either.
Posted on 1/26/17 at 1:38 pm to Robin Masters
OP gets downvoted to hell for having the audacity to start a substantive discussion - why I come here
Posted on 1/26/17 at 1:39 pm to SlowFlowPro
The White House is actively opposing another the Stop Dangerous Sanctuary Cities Act, a Republican-backed bill which would cut federal economic development and community block grants to sanctuary jurisdictions. (RELATED: White House: Anti-Sanctuary City Law Would Impede Efforts To Enforce The Nation’s Immigration Laws)
The White House has argued that the bill would “deny funding for cities to implement a wide range of community development, infrastructure, and housing activities and provide vital public services, including meals to the elderly and affordable child care for low-income, working families.”
So it appears Obama wasn't arguing constitutional standing but impact.
The White House has argued that the bill would “deny funding for cities to implement a wide range of community development, infrastructure, and housing activities and provide vital public services, including meals to the elderly and affordable child care for low-income, working families.”
So it appears Obama wasn't arguing constitutional standing but impact.
Posted on 1/26/17 at 1:39 pm to FreddieMac
quote:
This is not a high crime or misdemeanor.
But it is a costly crime.
Posted on 1/26/17 at 1:40 pm to CommoDawg
What happens when this goes to the courts, and the SCOTUS decision applauded by the Obama admin that bans states from being able to decide on immigration enforcement gets trotted out?
Posted on 1/26/17 at 1:43 pm to cokebottleag
quote:
What happens
Comeuppance?
Posted on 1/26/17 at 1:44 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
OP gets downvoted to hell for having the audacity to start a substantive discussion - why I come here
There are certain posters who would get down voted for posting tomorrow's winning lottery numbers.
Posted on 1/26/17 at 1:44 pm to Jbird
well Obama was criticizing a statutory law
if CONGRESS passes this funding-withholding as a law, then the constitutional argument goes out the window
if CONGRESS passes this funding-withholding as a law, then the constitutional argument goes out the window
Posted on 1/26/17 at 1:45 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
states can do whatever they want as long as they don't violate the above federal law states do not have to use their resources to enforce federal law (But they can). they have the option
National security and enforcement of those laws is not only a federal government role, it is an obligation.
If federal law states that protecting criminal aliens is a violation of those laws, the parties that make that dynamic up are also in violation. Could this be held up in court?...probably. Do they have the right to withhold funds?..probably. Let the states and cities make the call and suffer the consequences. It's up to them.
Posted on 1/26/17 at 1:46 pm to SlowFlowPro
California state and local law enforcement agencies may have to choose between more than $100 million in federal aid and the “sanctuary city” immigration policies that supporters say are humane, but critics say fuel crime.
Although the Obama administration and Attorney General Loretta Lynch have not objected to sanctuary city policies, Congress instructed the Department of Justice’s Inspector General to monitor compliance.
In some situations, federal agencies pay for illegal immigrants to be held in local jails, only to be turned away when they come to deport the prisoners, the report said.
“The findings are pretty clear — these are sanctuaries and they are violating federal law,” Vaughan said. “They should change their policies before more people get killed, and if they don’t, they should be debarred from DOJ grants.”
Rep. John Abney Culberson, R-Texas, said cities and states that embrace sanctuary policies can be stripped of federal grants, including the entire states of Connecticut and California, as well as Las Vegas, Milwaukee, Miami, Chicago, New Orleans, New York and Philadelphia, which were audited in the Inspector General report.
“If these ten jurisdictions do not repeal their sanctuary policies to comply with this federal immigration law, they will not be eligible for Byrne-JAG and State Criminal Alien Assistance Program (SCAAP) law enforcement grants and could be subject to civil and criminal penalties,” Culberson said in a statement. “Under the new Department of Justice grant guidelines, these ten jurisdictions will now have to choose between receiving law enforcement grant money or protecting criminal illegal aliens. They can no longer do both. If these jurisdictions refuse to comply they could also be forced to repay every dollar they have received from these grant programs.”
Inspector General Michael Horowitz said in his report that based on his agency’s discussions with ICE officials about the impact these laws and policies were having on their ability to interact with local officials, as well as the information reviewed, “these policies and others like them may be causing local officials to believe and apply the policies in a manner that prohibits or restricts cooperation with ICE in all respects… That, of course, would be inconsistent with and prohibited by Section 1373.”
LINK
Although the Obama administration and Attorney General Loretta Lynch have not objected to sanctuary city policies, Congress instructed the Department of Justice’s Inspector General to monitor compliance.
In some situations, federal agencies pay for illegal immigrants to be held in local jails, only to be turned away when they come to deport the prisoners, the report said.
“The findings are pretty clear — these are sanctuaries and they are violating federal law,” Vaughan said. “They should change their policies before more people get killed, and if they don’t, they should be debarred from DOJ grants.”
Rep. John Abney Culberson, R-Texas, said cities and states that embrace sanctuary policies can be stripped of federal grants, including the entire states of Connecticut and California, as well as Las Vegas, Milwaukee, Miami, Chicago, New Orleans, New York and Philadelphia, which were audited in the Inspector General report.
“If these ten jurisdictions do not repeal their sanctuary policies to comply with this federal immigration law, they will not be eligible for Byrne-JAG and State Criminal Alien Assistance Program (SCAAP) law enforcement grants and could be subject to civil and criminal penalties,” Culberson said in a statement. “Under the new Department of Justice grant guidelines, these ten jurisdictions will now have to choose between receiving law enforcement grant money or protecting criminal illegal aliens. They can no longer do both. If these jurisdictions refuse to comply they could also be forced to repay every dollar they have received from these grant programs.”
Inspector General Michael Horowitz said in his report that based on his agency’s discussions with ICE officials about the impact these laws and policies were having on their ability to interact with local officials, as well as the information reviewed, “these policies and others like them may be causing local officials to believe and apply the policies in a manner that prohibits or restricts cooperation with ICE in all respects… That, of course, would be inconsistent with and prohibited by Section 1373.”
LINK
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