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National Sales Tax - why not?
Posted on 12/3/16 at 12:49 pm
Posted on 12/3/16 at 12:49 pm
Please enlighten me as to why we don't have this simple and equitable taxation model? If you're on a budget, you're apt to spend less and pay less tax. If you're wealthy, you're apt to spend more and pay more tax. For the ultra-rich who buy expensive toys, tack on a Valued Added Tax. Corporations would also pay accordingly. The appropriate tax rates would require debate and corresponding mathematical rules.
Why can't this work and why doesn't it get more support?
Why can't this work and why doesn't it get more support?
Posted on 12/3/16 at 12:54 pm to tigerpawl
Regardless of sales taxes on a state/national scale, basic necessities for survival - essentially food/utilities - should not be taxed. Naturally, the wealthy will consume more non-essential items. People scraping by paycheck to paycheck should not be taxed just to put food on the table.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 12:54 pm to tigerpawl
Sales Taxes effect everyone equally. Which sounds good and works ok on a small local scale from time to time. But a national sales tax isn't ideal for the same reason a national flat tax isn't ideal. This is one thing where libertarians are democrat levels of ignorant.
Literally just sticking their fingers in their ears and going "la la la I can't hear you I just want fair flat tax".
Literally just sticking their fingers in their ears and going "la la la I can't hear you I just want fair flat tax".
Posted on 12/3/16 at 12:54 pm to tigerpawl
We have a state and local sales tax. Probably need to get rid of income tax
Posted on 12/3/16 at 12:55 pm to tigerpawl
Easy answer is because it's not a progressive tax. The poor spend a higher percent of their earnings on just day to day living so they're in effect taxed at a higher rate. The rich pay a larger actual dollar amount, but a smaller percent.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 12:58 pm to DavidTheGnome
quote:
Easy answer is because it's not a progressive tax. The poor spend a higher percent of their earnings on just day to day living so they're in effect taxed at a higher rate. The rich pay a larger actual dollar amount, but a smaller percent.
The Fair Tax addresses this issue. The poor don't pay any tax, whatsoever.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 12:58 pm to tigerpawl
I am a proponent of it. The negatives I have heard discussed are that it makes people less likely to make large purchases because of the substantial 25% tax put on the price tag. This would hurt the car mfg in the US. The counter to that is people don't care how much cars cost anyway, as long as their monthly payment is at a certain level.
Another negative that I do see the logic in is that the super wealthy spend more money, but a much smaller percentage of their actual income. While the tax would apply to the money the spend, it would not apply to the large portion of money they don't spend, and that would go untaxed. Whereas the average American that spends everything they make would end up being taxed on their entire income.
Another negative that I do see the logic in is that the super wealthy spend more money, but a much smaller percentage of their actual income. While the tax would apply to the money the spend, it would not apply to the large portion of money they don't spend, and that would go untaxed. Whereas the average American that spends everything they make would end up being taxed on their entire income.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 12:59 pm to tigerpawl
OP is racist.
/EOT.
(Shout out to liberals: When a policy disproportionately affects one or more races, that does not make it "racist".)
/EOT.
(Shout out to liberals: When a policy disproportionately affects one or more races, that does not make it "racist".)
Posted on 12/3/16 at 1:04 pm to DavidTheGnome
quote:
Easy answer is because it's not a progressive tax. The poor spend a higher percent of their earnings on just day to day living so they're in effect taxed at a higher rate. The rich pay a larger actual dollar amount, but a smaller percent.
It doesn't allow redistribution of wealth at the point of a gun.
Sales tax involves choice. You can choose to not participate by Not engaging in the activity.
Income tax is theft. The Government steals it from you under the guise of "public good" but it is actually for the good of those who want what is yours and they get the Government to steal it from you for them.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 1:07 pm to Jax-Tiger
quote:
The Fair Tax addresses this issue. The poor don't pay any tax, whatsoever.
I'm not very familiar which the proposed mechanics, how does it do this? I'd assume the tax would be taxed at the time of sale so how do they not pay tax on it? The only way I can think of is either they carry around proof of their income with them for every purchase they make or they save receipts for every purchase they make, submit it at the end of the year, and get a refund. Either scenario sounds difficult to implement.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 1:07 pm to Ag Zwin
If you exempt food, clothes, shoes, cleaning products, toothpaste and OTC medicines, school supplies, soap, hygiene products, and and exempt cars and trucks it could work. If you had a luxury tax on cars over $40,000 instead that would be better.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 1:10 pm to Loserman
It might lower my taxes, as local sales is 11% and state is 6%. You add my Federal at 39%, and it's getting up there...Then there is Property tax, and Health insurance that has become a huge hidden tax, and it's a wonder people can send there kids to College...
Posted on 12/3/16 at 1:18 pm to tigerpawl
While I support the Fair Tax as a replacement for our current income tax system, I have made it my mission to always point out to the board that ALL taxes are theft.
Taxation is Robbery- Mises org article
Oh, by the way, theft is a bad thing.
Taxation is Robbery- Mises org article
Oh, by the way, theft is a bad thing.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 1:19 pm to DavidTheGnome
quote:Not so. The presumption here is that rates would not be adjusted upwards for stuff that only the rich can afford. As mentioned, the new rates would be applied accordingly and be subject to certain algorithms.
Easy answer is because it's not a progressive tax.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 1:20 pm to tigerpawl
Accountants for starters
J/K
You have many on the left that would love such a tax but if you talk to enough Conservatives they seem to prefer a flat tax system. Also, in exchange for adding this VAT they would want income and possibly some type of payroll tax reduction. Just think about how messy that process would be. Still, the only tax system that could pay for all the liberal policies is a National VAT. If they want a VAT it's because they can raise it anytime they have power and don't think some elected Republicans wouldn't love this mechanism in place either.
J/K
You have many on the left that would love such a tax but if you talk to enough Conservatives they seem to prefer a flat tax system. Also, in exchange for adding this VAT they would want income and possibly some type of payroll tax reduction. Just think about how messy that process would be. Still, the only tax system that could pay for all the liberal policies is a National VAT. If they want a VAT it's because they can raise it anytime they have power and don't think some elected Republicans wouldn't love this mechanism in place either.
This post was edited on 12/3/16 at 1:21 pm
Posted on 12/3/16 at 1:24 pm to tigerpawl
quote:
Not so. The presumption here is that rates would not be adjusted upwards for stuff that only the rich can afford. As mentioned, the new rates would be applied accordingly and be subject to certain algorithms.
Our tax code is absurd I don't argue that, but the compliance costs of what you're proposing sound equally so. Who decides what product is taxed at what rate? And where do we find these non-corruptable people? Are all products that fall under the same category taxed the same, or are some considered luxury? If so who gets to draw the line for what's considered luxury? It all sounds like even more of a mess than what we have now.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 1:25 pm to tigerpawl
quote:
Please enlighten me as to why we don't have this simple and equitable taxation model?
As a complete replacement for other taxes, like income/ corporate/ property? Sure.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 1:29 pm to tigerpawl
The signle biggest reason it has not happened is that the current tax code is the biggest tool the government has to control / influence citizens' behavior. It would be the biggest transfer of power from government to people in the history of the country.
That is why it won't happen. All the other information above is just window dressing.
That is why it won't happen. All the other information above is just window dressing.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 1:31 pm to DavidTheGnome
quote:
I'm not very familiar which the proposed mechanics, how does it do this?
The Fair Tax does uses actuarial numbers to determine basic needs of food, housing, etc for a family of 'whatever' and they get a prebate for that amount.
As a poster above said the Fair Tax makes the progressivity argument moot. The problem still remains that you would have to pass a repeal of the income tax before implementing it. Otherwise politicians would just add the sales tax to the current tax structure.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 1:33 pm to DavidTheGnome
quote:Not saying it would be easy. Old habits die hard, but you have to break eggs to make an omelet. Honestly, I think one thing that hinders a national sales tax from going forward is the average person's aversion to basic math. It's not that hard.
Our tax code is absurd I don't argue that, but the compliance costs of what you're proposing sound equally so. Who decides what product is taxed at what rate?
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