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Started By
Message
re: National Sales Tax - why not?
Posted on 12/3/16 at 1:34 pm to Tiger4Liberty
Posted on 12/3/16 at 1:34 pm to Tiger4Liberty
quote:
ALL taxes are theft.
not if you consent to them
and the FairTax (and sales taxes) at least have and element of consent
The income tax has none. It was put in place 100 years ago.
No one alive voted for it or even had a congressional representative vote for it.
1
Posted on 12/3/16 at 1:40 pm to Zach
quote:
The Fair Tax does uses actuarial numbers to determine basic needs of food, housing, etc for a family of 'whatever' and they get a prebate for that amount.
A prebate meaning the government pays them for the taxes they are supposedly going to spend before they do so?
This post was edited on 12/3/16 at 1:41 pm
Posted on 12/3/16 at 1:41 pm to C
Would love to get rid of income tax and use a sales tax instead. Give disabled and those over 70 a card to remove tax at time of purchase.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 1:43 pm to TrueTiger
quote:
not if you consent to them
Laughable.
I don't consent to my current tax burden. Will the rulers use force against me if I choose not to pay?
There is no way around the moral fact that all taxes, unless universally consented to (not happening), are theft.
Read the article that I linked and tell me why the author is logically incorrect.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 1:54 pm to progodlegend
quote:
But a national sales tax isn't ideal for the same reason a national flat tax isn't ideal.
...and that is?
Posted on 12/3/16 at 2:01 pm to Tiger4Liberty
quote:
There is no way around the moral fact that all taxes, unless universally consented to (not happening), are theft.
I don't agree. The government is grossly inefficient, bloated, and ever growing - I'm sure we can agree on this. The less of it there is the better. But we do need some level of governance to survive and prosper.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 2:02 pm to Tiger4Liberty
quote:
ALL taxes are theft.
No they're not. That is being disingenuous. When you sign an employment contract, purchase a home, buy a good or service, you're agreeing to pay the tax. It is very much possible to avoid them, but we all know that life wouldn't be all that grand.
When you're robbed, you have zero say in the matter.
This post was edited on 12/3/16 at 2:04 pm
Posted on 12/3/16 at 2:02 pm to tigerpawl
quote:
Why can't this work and why doesn't it get more support?
Get rid of the income tax (about as wealth and prosperity killing idea there has ever been - the core of creeping Marxism for 100 years now) and we'll talk.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 2:03 pm to Tiger4Liberty
I don't disagree that without consent it is theft.
Obviously, if you consent there is no theft. I didn't consent to my present taxes either.
I'm just saying that a system like the FairTax has an element of consent.
If you don't want to pay the tax, don't buy the merchandise.
Obviously, if you consent there is no theft. I didn't consent to my present taxes either.
I'm just saying that a system like the FairTax has an element of consent.
If you don't want to pay the tax, don't buy the merchandise.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 2:05 pm to TrueTiger
quote:
Obviously, if you consent there is no theft. I didn't consent to my present taxes either
Sure you did. If you make a certain amount, you're taxed. You knew this before taking a job and/or taking a higher paying one.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 2:11 pm to TrueTiger
Pregressive is bullcrap. If you make a dollar it should be taxed at X% either income or sales and be done with it. No other taxes allowed.
Do away with people paying money to have people fill out their taxes for them. Do away with the day of headache to have deal with every year filling it out yourself.
Tax rate would be X for everyone and if you raise it it would go up for everyone.
This would keep people from ganging up on other groups to make them pay more than everyone else.
If 18% is fair it is fair for everyone.
Property tax should be illegal. Property tax means you can never own property. It means you rent from the govt. If you don't pay your taxes THEY sale what you thought was YOUR property.
Do away with people paying money to have people fill out their taxes for them. Do away with the day of headache to have deal with every year filling it out yourself.
Tax rate would be X for everyone and if you raise it it would go up for everyone.
This would keep people from ganging up on other groups to make them pay more than everyone else.
If 18% is fair it is fair for everyone.
Property tax should be illegal. Property tax means you can never own property. It means you rent from the govt. If you don't pay your taxes THEY sale what you thought was YOUR property.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 2:13 pm to progodlegend
What's next, the mittani gonna start posting here ?
Posted on 12/3/16 at 2:18 pm to Ralph_Wiggum
quote:I have always been driven by an overwhelming urge to earn more. I don't mean to be crass or uncaring, but if you are a person who is not success oriented, work in a hourly job and don't do anything outside of that to better your economic condition (education, second job, start a business, pet sit, I don't care) then why should I have to pay more so that you can be comfortably lazy, all the while reveling in the fact that you're sticking it to the "rich guy" who went out and busted his arse to get there?
If you exempt food, clothes, shoes, cleaning products, toothpaste and OTC medicines, school supplies, soap, hygiene products, and and exempt cars and trucks it could work. If you had a luxury tax on cars over $40,000 instead that would be better.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 2:18 pm to AUbagman
quote:
basic necessities for survival - essentially food/utilities - should not be taxed.
That already are, terrible argument...
Posted on 12/3/16 at 2:23 pm to DavidTheGnome
quote:
A prebate meaning the government pays them for the taxes they are supposedly going to spend before they do so?
Yes. Easiest way to handle this. We wouldn't put the burden of figuring out which items are taxable or not on retailers and/or Congress.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 3:00 pm to DavidTheGnome
quote:
A prebate meaning the government pays them for the taxes they are supposedly going to spend before they do so?
Yes. IE, if you live alone and your expenditures for basic necessities is 10K and your sales tax rate on that is 10% then you owe 1K, then you get a check for 1K and then you are on your own.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 3:03 pm to DavidTheGnome
quote:
I don't agree. The government is grossly inefficient, bloated, and ever growing - I'm sure we can agree on this. The less of it there is the better. But we do need some level of governance to survive and prosper.
You say that you don't agree, but your argument has nothing to do with the premise that all taxes are theft.
I made no statement saying that government wasn't necessary. Read my linked article and tell me why the author is wrong.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 3:03 pm to Jax-Tiger
quote:
Yes. Easiest way to handle this. We wouldn't put the burden of figuring out which items are taxable or not on retailers and/or Congress.
That's absurd. Do they need to save their receipts all year to prove what the government already paid them was equal to what they spent? How do you prove this? like I said before the cost of compliance would be through the roof and tax fraud would be absolutely rampant.
And who gets to be the decider on what gets taxed? Corruption in that position would be a given, not to mention the enormous amount of gray areas out there.
The best workable solution seems to be the flat rate income tax that was mentioned above. Much more realistic and actually possible than a sales tax. It's still a regressive tax but much more feasible than a sales tax.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 3:05 pm to tigerpawl
No because it will be in addition to everything else.
How about they quit spending money on stuff we can't afford.
How about they quit spending money on stuff we can't afford.
Posted on 12/3/16 at 3:09 pm to DavidTheGnome
quote:
That's absurd. Do they need to save their receipts all year to prove what the government already paid them was equal to what they spent? How do you prove this?
No. Not at all. It's actuarial tables. If a normal single person living alone needs 10K of purchases to survive then you get 1K sales tax prebate. You pay zero taxes if you live that way.
If you live beyond that because you are obese or just want to buy 100 purses (like my wife) then you are gonna pay sales taxes on everything over 1K.
If you live on dry cereal and pecans from your backyard tree and don't spend 10K then you pocket the prebate as profit..not taxed.
It requires NO receipts...NO proof. It's very simple.
This post was edited on 12/3/16 at 3:10 pm
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