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re: What happened to Jordan Jefferson over the course of his career
Posted on 7/31/15 at 9:29 am to chilge1
Posted on 7/31/15 at 9:29 am to chilge1
quote:
Seems like it's pretty obvious who the better QB was... right?
Given # plays during 2011 for each QB appx. equal ... please explain why in your opinion ESPN got it wrong ... methodology, accuracy?
1
Posted on 7/31/15 at 9:30 am to Salviati
This shitty thread hasn't been anchored yet?
Posted on 7/31/15 at 9:39 am to tlsu15
quote:
On the morality scale, what he did wasn't so bad. I'd venture to say Mett being arrested for sexual assault is a worse thing in the world. I bet you didn't have a problem with him QBing the Tigers.
I actually had a big problem with him ever setting foot on campus, same as Jeremy Hill. I think you painting Jefferson as a martyr for his teammates is a little far fetched though.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 9:40 am to BCS Statmaster
quote:First, please tell me the equation by which you or I or anyone can determine the ESPN QBR? I mean, we can all verify it, right?quote:Given # plays during 2011 for each QB appx. equal ... please explain why in your opinion ESPN got it wrong ... methodology, accuracy?
Seems like it's pretty obvious who the better QB was... right?
Second, the ESPN QBR that you provided includes the 2011 post-season, two games in which Lee did not have stats. The SECCG and BCSCG are different from the regular season in quality and kind. You can't possibly be suggesting that those two games should be included in a comparison between Jefferson and Lee, can you?!?!
Jefferson was a better QB than Lee.
Jefferson's three regular season starts in 2011 were the three best offensive games of the season.
It wasn't that one of Jefferson's games was better than one of Lee's games. It wasn't that the average of Jefferson's three starts was better than the average of Lee's starts. Every regular season game that Jefferson started was better than every regular season game that Lee started.
LSU's best rushing game happened when Jefferson started.
LSU's best total offense game happened when Jefferson started.
LSU's best completion percentage game happened when Jefferson started.
In the nine games that Lee started during the regular season, LSU gained over 450 yards just once. In the three games that Jefferson started during the regular season, LSU gained more than 450 yards in every game. Every game.
Jefferson had better regular season passing numbers than Lee.
Compare regular season numbers. Jefferson had better passing numbers than Lee: higher Completion %; higher QB Rating; higher YPA; lower Interception %. And that's not even mentioning how much Jefferson improved the team's rushing attack. LSU rushed for over 250 yards in every game of Jefferson’s three starts.
Lee threw for over 200 yards (213) just once in nine games. Jefferson threw for more than 200 yards (208) once in just three games.
Jefferson completed 100% of his passes against Ole Miss. Lee never completed 100% of his passes in any of his starts, not even against Northwestern State, an FCS school.
In Lee's nine regular season starts, he completed less than 50% of his passes three times. In Jefferson's three starts, he always completed more than 55% of his passes.
Jefferson (2011 Regular Season)
64.3%, 9.34 YPA, 5 TDs, 1 INT, INT% 1.43%, Overall Rating 163.48
Lee (2011 Regular Season)
62.3%, 7.82 YPA, 14 TDs, 3 INTs, INT% 1.80%, Overall Rating 152.04
Post-season numbers cannot be compared. Jefferson played in the Championship games. Lee didn't.
Jefferson was more efficient than Lee
From the moment that Jefferson threw his first pass in the Florida game in 2011, he had a higher QB Rating than Lee. Jefferson had a better efficiency rating than Lee, and that better efficiency continued for the rest of the regular season. That's right, from his first pass until the end of the regular season, Jefferson was more efficient than Lee.
So when folks say that Lee was an efficient QB, the "most efficient" QB in the SEC or in the nation, at no point during the regular season, from the time Jefferson threw his first pass until the end of the regular season, was Lee more efficient than Jefferson.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 9:42 am to Salviati
quote:
First, please tell me the equation by which you or I or anyone can determine the ESPN QBR?
I have no problem with ESPN ... you're dissent must have some basis.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 9:44 am to logjamming
quote:Mett and Hill committed crimes. They admitted it.quote:I actually had a big problem with him ever setting foot on campus, same as Jeremy Hill. I think you painting Jefferson as a martyr for his teammates is a little far fetched though.
On the morality scale, what he did wasn't so bad. I'd venture to say Mett being arrested for sexual assault is a worse thing in the world. I bet you didn't have a problem with him QBing the Tigers.
Jefferson has always maintained that he was not involved in the fight. He did not kick anyone.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 9:47 am to BCS Statmaster
quote:
I have no problem with ESPN ... you're dissent must have some basis
Tell you what... rather than debate the merits of a QB rating system that no statisticians aside from ESPN actually use, let's just agree that of the games where each saw snaps, Jefferson was the better quarterback 4 out of 5 times and therefore earned the right to be the starting quarterback for the last 3 games of the season.
Cool?
Posted on 7/31/15 at 9:54 am to BCS Statmaster
quote:Clearly, you have blind faith in ESPN. You obviously believe them to be infallible. You must believe that they are incapable of making a typographical mistake, computational mistake, or factual error.quote:I have no problem with ESPN ... you're dissent must have some basis.
First, please tell me the equation by which you or I or anyone can determine the ESPN QBR?
You clearly must believe these things because you put your blind faith in a made-up number that cannot be verified and that is not used by anyone outside of ESPN.
I apologize for not bowing down to the almighty ESPN. I don't wear a tinfoil hat, but I know that reporters, typists, etc make typographical and computational errors.
And you keep referencing the "number of plays" by Lee and Jefferson as thought that is a key statistic. Please enlighten me as to the qualitative or quantitative impact that the "number of plays" has on the ESPN QBR?
Posted on 7/31/15 at 9:57 am to chilge1
quote:
let's just agree
I agree for the sake of killing this thread. It's Saturday!
Posted on 7/31/15 at 9:59 am to Salviati
quote:
Clearly, you have blind faith in ESPN
Desperate response. I am not here to defend your position (or lack of one).
Posted on 7/31/15 at 9:59 am to BCS Statmaster
quote:
I agree for the sake of killing this thread. It's Saturday!
Posted on 7/31/15 at 10:03 am to logjamming
quote:
I actually had a big problem with him ever setting foot on campus, same as Jeremy Hill. I think you painting Jefferson as a martyr for his teammates is a little far fetched though.
Fair enough. I know for a fact that Jefferson wasn't the one who initially started beating that dude down. He was the one in the group who was recognized though so he got the blame.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 10:05 am to Salviati
Where are you getting your stats from?
Bc what I looked up had Qbr for lee at 128 and Jeff at 15.
Jeff had 100 rushing on 5 attempts.
83 of that coming on one busted play first play of game.
That means rest of game he 30 yards passing and 4 rushes for 17 yards.
Plus two ints.
It's obvious with the novel you've managed to post in this thread (not to mention the countless other posts you've made in your history on this subject) you have some personal skin on this topic.
It's not that important to me.
I'm not trying to hurt your feelings about it. Just try to get your facts straight though.
Bc what I looked up had Qbr for lee at 128 and Jeff at 15.
Jeff had 100 rushing on 5 attempts.
83 of that coming on one busted play first play of game.
That means rest of game he 30 yards passing and 4 rushes for 17 yards.
Plus two ints.
It's obvious with the novel you've managed to post in this thread (not to mention the countless other posts you've made in your history on this subject) you have some personal skin on this topic.
It's not that important to me.
I'm not trying to hurt your feelings about it. Just try to get your facts straight though.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 10:09 am to BCS Statmaster
quote:
Desperate response. I am not here to defend your position (or lack of one).
No, you're defending a statistic you don't even comprehend... Adjusted QBR...? How is it adjusted? Here are the % changes from Raw to Adjusted QBRs for Lee and Jefferson against teams faced in 2011, listed in descending order of defensive passing ranking..
#1 Bama – 444% increase (JL)– 96.1% increase (JJ)
#1 Bama – 302% increase (JJ)
#4 UGA – 137% increase (JJ)
#11 WVU – 14.4% increase (JL)
#17 Arky – 0.1% increase (JJ)
#27 MSST – 21% increase (JL)
#28 Flor – 3.7% increase (JL) – 3.8% increase (JJ)
#29 Kent – 3.2% increase (JL) – 0% increase (JJ)
#40 Oregon – 47.1% increase (JL)
#48 Tenn – 10.5% increase (JL) – 28.9% increase (JJ)
#55 WKU – 5.8% increase (JJ)
#83 Miss – 0.0% increase (JJ)
#86 Aubn – 6.8% decrease (JL)– 2.1% decrease (JJ)
UR - NWST – 5.8% decrease (JL)
Please explain to me how two quarterbacks, against the same defense, can have their QBR adjusted to such varying degrees.... or how Oregon, who possessed the 40th ranked pass defense in 2011, was adjusted to a greater degree than 5 teams who were more efficient against the pass...
Posted on 7/31/15 at 10:13 am to chilge1
quote:
you're debating a statistic you don't even comprehend
fify
Posted on 7/31/15 at 10:18 am to BCS Statmaster
Enlighten me then, as I've requested... it's a statistic nobody understands or uses because it's completely subjective and can't be replicated.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 10:20 am to chilge1
quote:
Enlighten me
You are the one taking issue with ESPN ... your position not mine. Defend it.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 10:24 am to Makinbacon
quote:ESPN like BCS Statmaster wants me to do.
Where are you getting your stats from?
quote::smh:
Bc what I looked up had Qbr for lee at 128 and Jeff at 15.
Come on man. You want to discuss stats, but you don't even know what stats you're looking at. You must not be looking at QBR because QBR does not go over 100.
Jefferson's QB is 65.5. Lee's QBR is 40.1.
quote:Really?!?!
It's obvious with the novel you've managed to post in this thread (not to mention the countless other posts you've made in your history on this subject) you have some personal skin on this topic.
It's not that important to me.
If you can't discredit the facts, you attempt to discredit the person who provides the facts?!?!
I have not personal skin on this topic. I don't know Jefferson. Never met him. Don't know anyone in his family, and never met any of them. I have ZERO connection to Jefferson except that he was the QB for LSU, and I graduated from LSU twice.
I'm just tired of seeing the bullshite that posters like you post about him.
Jefferson and Lee busted arse for LSU. They both took a lot of shite. Lee has been martyred on the altar of the backup QB, and he has been forgiven for his sins. It's well past time for people to give up their hate for Jefferson. His coaches respected him, and his teammates respected him. He was not perfect on or off the field, but there is a lot about him to respect.
quote:My facts are always straight and accurate.
I'm not trying to hurt your feelings about it. Just try to get your facts straight though.
I bring facts, and I bring opinions based on facts.
Unlike many posters in this thread, I don't bring hate.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 10:26 am to chilge1
quote:
it's completely subjective
What about the equation or data collection is subjective
Posted on 7/31/15 at 10:27 am to chilge1
quote:quote:No, you're defending a statistic you don't even comprehend... Adjusted QBR...? How is it adjusted? Here are the % changes from Raw to Adjusted QBRs for Lee and Jefferson against teams faced in 2011, listed in descending order of defensive passing ranking..
Desperate response. I am not here to defend your position (or lack of one).
#1 Bama – 444% increase (JL)– 96.1% increase (JJ)
#1 Bama – 302% increase (JJ)
#4 UGA – 137% increase (JJ)
#11 WVU – 14.4% increase (JL)
#17 Arky – 0.1% increase (JJ)
#27 MSST – 21% increase (JL)
#28 Flor – 3.7% increase (JL) – 3.8% increase (JJ)
#29 Kent – 3.2% increase (JL) – 0% increase (JJ)
#40 Oregon – 47.1% increase (JL)
#48 Tenn – 10.5% increase (JL) – 28.9% increase (JJ)
#55 WKU – 5.8% increase (JJ)
#83 Miss – 0.0% increase (JJ)
#86 Aubn – 6.8% decrease (JL)– 2.1% decrease (JJ)
UR - NWST – 5.8% decrease (JL)
Please explain to me how two quarterbacks, against the same defense, can have their QBR adjusted to such varying degrees.... or how Oregon, who possessed the 40th ranked pass defense in 2011, was adjusted to a greater degree than 5 teams who were more efficient against the pass...
I eagerly await his position (or lack of one).
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