- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
0
Posted on 7/31/15 at 8:42 am to Makinbacon
quote:
I get what you are saying, but fact is reason Lee played was because Jeff wasn't getting it done.
Pot meet kettle.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 8:45 am to chilge1
Just took about 30 secs and looked the stats up.
16-23 185 yards/ 1int
3-10 30 yards / 2int
You are right, I'm seeing exactly what I want to see.
16-23 185 yards/ 1int
3-10 30 yards / 2int
You are right, I'm seeing exactly what I want to see.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 8:51 am to Makinbacon
quote:
Just took about 30 secs and looked the stats up.
Yeah, let's ignore the 100 rushing yards and TD that Jefferson had in that game and the fact that LSU's first 10 points all came on drives led by Jefferson.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 8:53 am to BCS Statmaster
quote:
ESPN SEC QBR
ESPN QBR!?!?
Makinbacon is hot and bothered about Lee's performance in the 2010 Tennessee game.
Lee's QBR for the 2010 Tennessee game was 40.1.
Jefferson's QBR for the 2010 Tennessee game was 65.5.
Jefferson's ESPN QBR was obviously much higher for that game
Oh, and Makinbacon, I want to warn you up front that this might hurt a little bit because I am going to correct your perception of the facts by actually providing you with the facts. Thus, your perception might be altered into line with reality.
LSU had three scoring drives in the Tennessee game. Jefferson led two of the scoring drives. LSU scored two touchdowns. Jefferson was involved in both TD plays. LSU also kicked a field goal. Jefferson led that drive.
Lee was QB for the final two LSU possessions. He threw an interception on the first of those possessions, killing the drive. On the final possession, he failed on third down to keep the drive alive. Fortunately for Lee, that failure did not kill the drive because LSU had nothing to lose by going for it on 4th down. Jefferson, on the other hand, did not have that luxury throughout the game. Jefferson had to get 10 yards in three downs. Lee got four down to get 10 yards. To Lee's credit, he was able to get a first down on fourth down. Jefferson successfully finished that drive and LSU won the game.
This post was edited on 7/31/15 at 9:00 am
Posted on 7/31/15 at 8:55 am to tlsu15
quote:
We needed both to win that game, and a few others.
IMAGINE THAT. Two guys on the same team working to help their team win. Funny stuff.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 8:57 am to Rickdaddy4188
His performance in the big games against good teams was aweful, just aweful. He had a bad attitude to go with bad play.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 8:58 am to Salviati
quote:
ESPN QBR!?!?
What's the problem?
Posted on 7/31/15 at 9:03 am to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
In what reality is 61 completion% 3/1 tds ints ratio 7.7 yards per attempt 138.7 Not playing well?
When you literally set records for shitty QB play in your last two games. The SEC and National title games.
ETA: oh and when you invoke your inner Tupac and tell the media "only God can judge me" after copping a plea to a lesser offense for allegedly kicking someone in the head.
F*ck that guy.
This post was edited on 7/31/15 at 9:06 am
Posted on 7/31/15 at 9:03 am to Makinbacon
quote:Cearly, you are seeing ONLY what you want to see.
Just took about 30 secs and looked the stats up.
16-23 185 yards/ 1int
3-10 30 yards / 2int
You are right, I'm seeing exactly what I want to see.
Jefferson net yards: 130
Lee net yards: 170
Jefferson: 1 TD, 2 INTs
Lee: 0 TDs, 1 INT
Jefferson's QBR: 65.5
Lee's QBR: 40.1
Posted on 7/31/15 at 9:09 am to chilge1
quote:
Yeah, let's ignore the 100 rushing yards and TD that Jefferson had in that game and the fact that LSU's first 10 points all came on drives led by Jefferson.
Take it easy there Jordan.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 9:12 am to White Tiger
quote:Aweful?!?!
His performance in the big games against good teams was aweful, just aweful. He had a bad attitude to go with bad play.
Jefferson had potential; he progressed; but his development was hampered by time served under Crowton.
SEC Regular Season Games
Jefferson's performance in the GOTC and against Arkansas were very good.
His performance in the second half of the SECCG was an integral part of that victory. Tyrann Mathieu sparked the team and played amazingly, but Jefferson led the team to FOUR offensive TDs.
And you can't reasonably blame Jefferson for the loss in the BCSCG. He completed almost 65% of his passes.
1. LSU did not run well against top five defenses. In the first half of the SECCG, LSUs' RBs gained 21 yards on 9 attempts. That's 2.3 YPC. On one possession, Jefferson completed a 9 yard pass on first down. LSU's RBs ran the ball twice and could not get the first down. The first half of the SECCG sucked for the entire LSU offense. During the BCSCG, LSU's RBs gained 24 yards for the whole game.
The problem with the BCSCG and the first half of the SECCG is that LSU's offense did not work against those defenses. The problem was the offensive line. For the BCSCG, the O-line couldn’t move the Bama D-line, and they couldn’t hold them back either. There was no run game, and there was no time to pass.
In nearly every series of the BCSCG, the offense line failed to execute on at least one play. Bama had the best defense in college football. It would have been difficult to beat Bama unless they made a costly mistake or the offense executed at a very high level.
2. The GOTC loss motivated Bama to better prepare for and play the NC game. Bama was playing for redemption. Bama was very well-prepared for the game. The Bama defense was fully prepared to shut down the option. The Bama defense was fully prepared to shut down LSU's deep threat.
3. Bama lost the GOTC with their prior offensive strategy, so they were forced to abandon it. Bama took greater risks to win the BCCG. The Bama offense went in a completely different direction than it had all season. Bama relied on McCarron and passing rather than Richardson and rushing to move the ball. Saban took the ball out of Richardson’s hands and made McCarron win the game. Bama threw on nearly every first down. It was a risky strategy, but what did Bama have to lose? They had already lost to LSU trying to run the ball. McCarron had a terrific night; thus, the strategy worked.
4. Even though Bama had flipped its offensive strategy, it does not necessarily mean that LSU should have inserted Lee at any point in the NC game. Hindsight is always 20/20, and we know now that LSU’s plan did not work. However, LSU trailed Arkansas 14-0 in the second quarter. The offense came around in the second quarter, and LSU blew out Arkansas. LSU trailed Georgia 10-0 at the half in the SECCG. The offense was atrocious the first half but came around in the second half, and LSU blew out Georgia. With a few dozen plays left, it was not unreasonable for Miles to go with the strategy that worked so well in the two previous games. It was at least as reasonable as trying a QB that was the antithesis of the ideal QB to use against Bama.
CONTINUED
Posted on 7/31/15 at 9:13 am to White Tiger
CONTINUED
5. Jefferson was the right choice for the entire game. Lee would have been ineffective. Jefferson in the pocket slowed down the Bama rush because Bama used a mush rush to contain Jefferson and prevent him from running. It’s the same idea LSU used against Manziel to keep him from breaking off long runs. Slow the rush and contain the QB. Bama would not have used a mush rush against Lee because Lee is no threat to run.
So if Miles put in Lee, there’s still no run game, and now there is even less time to pass. If there is one thing Bama feasted on, it was immobile pocket passers. Lee’s historic numbers against Bama confirm this fact. His QB Rating against Bama could fit in a shoe box.
Lee was efficient, but not prolific.
During 2011, "efficient" is the single word that defined Lee. You'll be hard pressed to find a post about Lee without the word "efficient" just a few words away. The thing about being defined as “efficient” is that it means that you aren’t a prolific passer; you don’t throw it a lot. In fact, it typically means that the offense is run-oriented and passes infrequently. Prior to the GOTC, Lee averaged less than 20 passes per game. Lee had only one game in 2011 in which he threw for more than 200 yards: 213 yards against Mississippi State. Lee wasn’t a prolific passer. He was efficient.
Efficient does not work when you can’t run.
Efficient works when your team can run the ball effectively. Efficient means that the defense is focused on stopping the run. Efficient means that the defense is not expecting a pass. Efficient means that you have time to throw because the defense is not focused on stopping the pass. Efficient does not work when you aren’t running well. Efficient does not work when your line can’t block. Bama’s D was suffocating that night. Bama would have killed Lee.
Jefferson was a better QB than Lee.
Jefferson's three regular season starts in 2011 were the three best offensive games of the season.
It wasn't that one of Jefferson's games was better than one of Lee's games. It wasn't that the average of Jefferson's three starts was better than the average of Lee's starts. Every regular season game that Jefferson started was better than every regular season game that Lee started.
LSU's best rushing game happened when Jefferson started.
LSU's best total offense game happened when Jefferson started.
LSU's best completion percentage game happened when Jefferson started.
In the nine games that Lee started during the regular season, LSU gained over 400 yards just once. In the three games that Jefferson started during the regular season, LSU gained more than 400 yards in every game. Every game.
Jefferson had better regular season passing numbers than Lee.
Compare regular season numbers. Jefferson had better passing numbers than Lee: higher Completion %; higher QB Rating; higher YPA; lower Interception %. And that's not even mentioning how much Jefferson improved the team's rushing attack. LSU rushed for over 250 yards in every game of Jefferson’s three starts.
Lee threw for over 200 yards (213) just once in nine games. Jefferson threw for more than 200 yards (208) once in just three games.
Jefferson completed 100% of his passes against Ole Miss. Lee never completed 100% of his passes in any of his starts, not even against Northwestern State, an FCS school.
In Lee's nine regular season starts, he completed less than 50% of his passes three times. In Jefferson's three starts, he always completed more than 55% of his passes.
Jefferson (2011 Regular Season)
64.3%, 9.34 YPA, 5 TDs, 1 INT, INT% 1.43%, Overall Rating 163.48
Lee (2011 Regular Season)
62.3%, 7.82 YPA, 14 TDs, 3 INTs, INT% 1.80%, Overall Rating 152.04
Post-season numbers cannot be compared. Jefferson played in the Championship games. Lee didn't
Jefferson was more efficient than Lee
From the moment that Jefferson threw his first pass in the Florida game in 2011, he had a higher QB Rating than Lee. Jefferson had a better efficiency rating than Lee, and that better efficiency continued for the rest of the regular season. That's right, from his first pass until the end of the regular season, Jefferson was more efficient than Lee.
So when folks say that Lee was an efficient QB, the "most efficient" QB in the SEC or in the nation, at no point during the regular season, from the time Jefferson threw his first pass until the end of the regular season, was Lee more efficient than Jefferson.
6. LSU should not have been playing Bama. LSU beat Bama at their house in the Game of the Century. You play the hand you’re dealt, but it was a raw deal.
5. Jefferson was the right choice for the entire game. Lee would have been ineffective. Jefferson in the pocket slowed down the Bama rush because Bama used a mush rush to contain Jefferson and prevent him from running. It’s the same idea LSU used against Manziel to keep him from breaking off long runs. Slow the rush and contain the QB. Bama would not have used a mush rush against Lee because Lee is no threat to run.
So if Miles put in Lee, there’s still no run game, and now there is even less time to pass. If there is one thing Bama feasted on, it was immobile pocket passers. Lee’s historic numbers against Bama confirm this fact. His QB Rating against Bama could fit in a shoe box.
Lee was efficient, but not prolific.
During 2011, "efficient" is the single word that defined Lee. You'll be hard pressed to find a post about Lee without the word "efficient" just a few words away. The thing about being defined as “efficient” is that it means that you aren’t a prolific passer; you don’t throw it a lot. In fact, it typically means that the offense is run-oriented and passes infrequently. Prior to the GOTC, Lee averaged less than 20 passes per game. Lee had only one game in 2011 in which he threw for more than 200 yards: 213 yards against Mississippi State. Lee wasn’t a prolific passer. He was efficient.
Efficient does not work when you can’t run.
Efficient works when your team can run the ball effectively. Efficient means that the defense is focused on stopping the run. Efficient means that the defense is not expecting a pass. Efficient means that you have time to throw because the defense is not focused on stopping the pass. Efficient does not work when you aren’t running well. Efficient does not work when your line can’t block. Bama’s D was suffocating that night. Bama would have killed Lee.
Jefferson was a better QB than Lee.
Jefferson's three regular season starts in 2011 were the three best offensive games of the season.
It wasn't that one of Jefferson's games was better than one of Lee's games. It wasn't that the average of Jefferson's three starts was better than the average of Lee's starts. Every regular season game that Jefferson started was better than every regular season game that Lee started.
LSU's best rushing game happened when Jefferson started.
LSU's best total offense game happened when Jefferson started.
LSU's best completion percentage game happened when Jefferson started.
In the nine games that Lee started during the regular season, LSU gained over 400 yards just once. In the three games that Jefferson started during the regular season, LSU gained more than 400 yards in every game. Every game.
Jefferson had better regular season passing numbers than Lee.
Compare regular season numbers. Jefferson had better passing numbers than Lee: higher Completion %; higher QB Rating; higher YPA; lower Interception %. And that's not even mentioning how much Jefferson improved the team's rushing attack. LSU rushed for over 250 yards in every game of Jefferson’s three starts.
Lee threw for over 200 yards (213) just once in nine games. Jefferson threw for more than 200 yards (208) once in just three games.
Jefferson completed 100% of his passes against Ole Miss. Lee never completed 100% of his passes in any of his starts, not even against Northwestern State, an FCS school.
In Lee's nine regular season starts, he completed less than 50% of his passes three times. In Jefferson's three starts, he always completed more than 55% of his passes.
Jefferson (2011 Regular Season)
64.3%, 9.34 YPA, 5 TDs, 1 INT, INT% 1.43%, Overall Rating 163.48
Lee (2011 Regular Season)
62.3%, 7.82 YPA, 14 TDs, 3 INTs, INT% 1.80%, Overall Rating 152.04
Post-season numbers cannot be compared. Jefferson played in the Championship games. Lee didn't
Jefferson was more efficient than Lee
From the moment that Jefferson threw his first pass in the Florida game in 2011, he had a higher QB Rating than Lee. Jefferson had a better efficiency rating than Lee, and that better efficiency continued for the rest of the regular season. That's right, from his first pass until the end of the regular season, Jefferson was more efficient than Lee.
So when folks say that Lee was an efficient QB, the "most efficient" QB in the SEC or in the nation, at no point during the regular season, from the time Jefferson threw his first pass until the end of the regular season, was Lee more efficient than Jefferson.
6. LSU should not have been playing Bama. LSU beat Bama at their house in the Game of the Century. You play the hand you’re dealt, but it was a raw deal.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 9:20 am to Makinbacon
quote:
Qbs on majority of organized football teams in America don't need two of them to help win.
Les Miles never wins a national championship without Flynn and Perrilloux. Florida doesn't get one in 2006 without Leake and Tebow. LSU would have lost a couple more games in 2010 without Lee and would have never made the SEC championship game in 11 without Jefferson.
Some times a team has a number 1 guy they ride with. Sometimes they are better off working as a unit. Lee and Jefferson both saved each other from being total disasters multiple times.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 9:21 am to Salviati
What's with all the excuses. He was at best an average QB who had a shorty attitude while he was at LSU.
Lee wasn't great but he stuck it out at LSU even though Miles and Crowton's handling of him was miserable and 90% of guys would have transferred. When called on to play because of Jefferson's bad off the field decisions, he had the team undefeated and was playing well.
Les gave him a shite deal in the end, sending him out there to take the final knee in the SEC title game, yet he's never spoken a bad word about Les. Jefferson always came off as confrontational; talking about "people trying to bring him down", even though he was clearly Les' guy.
the hate for Jefferson and love for Lee has very little to do with their QB abilities.
Lee wasn't great but he stuck it out at LSU even though Miles and Crowton's handling of him was miserable and 90% of guys would have transferred. When called on to play because of Jefferson's bad off the field decisions, he had the team undefeated and was playing well.
Les gave him a shite deal in the end, sending him out there to take the final knee in the SEC title game, yet he's never spoken a bad word about Les. Jefferson always came off as confrontational; talking about "people trying to bring him down", even though he was clearly Les' guy.
the hate for Jefferson and love for Lee has very little to do with their QB abilities.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 9:22 am to BCS Statmaster
quote:
What's the problem?
Let's pretend for a moment that ESPN QBR isn't a completely subjective statistic generated by an intern while he was getting coffee for his boss...
Here's the QBR (both Raw and Adjusted) for both quarterbacks once Jefferson was reinstated from his suspension, Lee is on the left, and Jefferson is on the right.
Kent - Raw QBR 69.7 Adj QBR 72.0 - Raw QBR 100.0 Adj QBR 100.0
Flor - Raw QBR 88.9 Adj QBR 92.2 - Raw QBR 88.7 Adj QBR 92.1
Tenn - Raw QBR 81.1 Adj QBR 89.6 - Raw QBR 55.3 Adj QBR 71.3
Aub - Raw QBR 91.0 Adj QBR 84.8 - Raw QBR 97.3 Adj QBR 95.2
Bama - Raw QBR 2.5 Adj QBR 13.6 - Raw QBR 41.2 Adj QBR 80.8
Seems like it's pretty obvious who the better QB was... right?
Right?
Posted on 7/31/15 at 9:23 am to fightingtigers98
As a frosh he played wild. It was fun but dangerous. Then Miles basically scared the shite out of him about turning the ball over.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 9:24 am to logjamming
quote:
ETA: oh and when you invoke your inner Tupac and tell the media "only God can judge me" after copping a plea to a lesser offense for allegedly kicking someone in the head.
F*ck that guy.
He was one of several LSU players involved in a bar fight with a guy who was acting like a total jackass. He took the fall for his teammates because he was the most recognizable face there.
What he did was dumb. The circus that the DA created by charging him with a felony for a bar fight was also dumb. He was disciplined as he should have been.
On the morality scale, what he did wasn't so bad. I'd venture to say Mett being arrested for sexual assault is a worse thing in the world. I bet you didn't have a problem with him QBing the Tigers.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 9:27 am to logjamming
quote:
When you literally set records for shitty QB play in your last two games. The SEC and National title games.
In the BCSCG, Jefferson completed almost 65% of his passes.
In the SECCG, Jefferson executed the option and zone read to near perfection in the second half. LSU gained over 200 yards rushing, and LSU scored FOUR offensive TDs in the SECCG.
LSU blew out Georgia. Tyrann Mathieu was a HUGE part of it, but the offense scored FOUR TDs, and a lot of it was thanks to Jefferson being the QB on the field.
Jefferson threw a pass for a TD, and he was the QB for the other three TDs. In ALL FIVE of LSU's possessions in the second half of the SECCG, Jefferson either ran for, threw for, or executed an option or zone read for a first down. ALL FIVE. The SECCG had the fourth highest YPC in 2011. The only three games with higher YPC were Jefferson's three regular season starts.
Posted on 7/31/15 at 9:28 am to logjamming
quote:
the hate for Jefferson and love for Lee has very little to do with their QB abilities.
This is 100% accurate... yet some would attempt to argue for the QB acumen of one over the other on the basis of demeanor.
Page 20 of 36
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News