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'American War Generals' a sobering reflection on U.S. failures in Iraq
Posted on 9/13/14 at 6:42 am
Posted on 9/13/14 at 6:42 am
quote:
As the U.S. escalates its campaign against jihadists in Iraq and Syria, a new documentary offers a cautionary tale about putting too much faith in technology and forgetting hard-fought lessons from the past.
“American War Generals,” which airs Sunday at 8 p.m. on the National Geographic Channel, looks at how the U.S. military recovered from its disastrous endeavor in Vietnam, remade itself into an all-volunteer force that focused on fighting conventional wars, and then came close to defeat in Iraq and Afghanistan as it faced a type of enemy it vowed never to fight again.
The documentary provides access to many of America’s top current and former commanders, including retired Army Gens. David Petraeus, George Casey, Jack Keane and Stanley McChrystal and Lt. Gen. H.R. McMaster, currently with U.S. Army Training and Doctrine Command.
McChrystal provides the film’s most candid and forthright commentary. The former head of Joint Special Operations Command, who went on to lead all U.S. and coalition troops in Afghanistan, waged a brutal war against al-Qaida in Iraq. Despite the U.S. military’s successes in Iraq after 2006, he calls the invasion a mistake.
“Before that war, if we’d looked at the cost — not just in Americans but in Iraqis and others — if we’d looked at the distrust that it created — or loss of trust — around the world for America; I don’t think a rational person would have ever said, ‘Yeah that’s worth it; we’ll do that,’ ” he said.
Military Times article
Posted on 9/13/14 at 6:48 am to Wolfhound45
Nation building.
Harumph.
Harumph.
Posted on 9/13/14 at 7:02 am to TT9
quote:
A disastrous mistake
It is cool that we can agree on something.
Posted on 9/13/14 at 7:04 am to Ace Midnight
I just harp on it too much.
Posted on 9/13/14 at 7:14 am to TT9
So many conservatives agree with you. It just gets frustrating not being able to move on from it
the failures in Iraq will haunt us for a long time, socially and financially
Posted on 9/13/14 at 7:58 am to Wolfhound45
quote:
and then came close to defeat in Iraq and Afghanistan
Will someone expound on this for me.
Posted on 9/13/14 at 8:11 am to themunch
quote:
Will someone expound on this for me.
That part is a little squirrelly - but I get the point. Not "Dien Bien Phu" defeat, but, "win all the battles, but lose the war" defeat - in that public support drops too low in the U.S.
I would argue, using public support as a criteria, that the war in Iraq is lost and the war in Afghanistan will ultimately be lost.
But not by the U.S. military, however parsed that distinction is.
Posted on 9/13/14 at 8:51 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
I would argue, using public support as a criteria, that the war in Iraq is lost and the war in Afghanistan will ultimately be lost.
Well said.
Posted on 9/13/14 at 8:54 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
But not by the U.S. military, however parsed that distinction is.
What it comes down to is that ever since WWII, the politicians have been all too willing to send our soldiers to kill and be killed, but not to win.
If we had simply gone out once in that time and waged total war on (pick your favorite) the Norks, the Viet Cong/N Vietnamese/ Iraqis etc., I highly doubt we'd have had to get involved in so many "police actions".
Friggin' politicians, the devil's spawn.
LC
Posted on 9/13/14 at 8:56 am to LongueCarabine
quote:
What it comes down to is that ever since WWII, the politicians have been all too willing to send our soldiers to kill and be killed, but not to win.
I've been saying that since I was a captain - "Is 'victory' off the table as a course of action?"
Posted on 9/13/14 at 9:03 am to Wolfhound45
a sobering reflection on the quality of generals we are producing
Seriously, are there any who could win an even fight? We have gotten used to having overwhelming technical superiority over everybody, hope there's never a case where we don't.
Just make sure we have the right mix of gays and transgenders and women, that's what really matters, have to be PC first to be a general, surely the way to get the best ones.
Imagine Eisenhower and Marshall and Bradley and Patton and Arnold getting together for a whine fest.
Seriously, are there any who could win an even fight? We have gotten used to having overwhelming technical superiority over everybody, hope there's never a case where we don't.
Just make sure we have the right mix of gays and transgenders and women, that's what really matters, have to be PC first to be a general, surely the way to get the best ones.
Imagine Eisenhower and Marshall and Bradley and Patton and Arnold getting together for a whine fest.
Posted on 9/13/14 at 9:03 am to Wolfhound45
So what's the punchline here?
That we're awesome at pyrrhic victories?
That we're awesome at pyrrhic victories?
Posted on 9/13/14 at 9:04 am to Ace Midnight
We were never attacked again on our home soil which I recall very well was a major fear and concern by every American in the years after9/11. I guess we will never know what we don't know but I consider that a success. Our soldiers don't have to have died or have been injured in vain.
Posted on 9/13/14 at 9:09 am to Ace Midnight
quote:Correct.
Nation building.
THAT was the mistake.
Undermanned occupation. Asinine isolation of any Sunnis from leadership. Those decisions were all on Rumsfeld, and of course on "W" who took his advice. There was certainly a better path exclusive of "not being there". The invasion went so well, that we just assumed the occupation would too.
Posted on 9/13/14 at 9:11 am to LongueCarabine
The American public and Congress act like war is simply a contest between two militaries. It is not. It is a life and death struggle between groups of people. We forget that, and we lose sight of the need to kill not only soldiers but everyone necessary to convince those opposed to us that war with us is a losing proposition. The enemy does not consist only of those who take up arms against us, but also those who do not oppose our enemies.
The worst part is we expect our friends and allies to apply the same standards when we know our enemies and theirs do not apply the same standards. One side worries about civilian casualties while the other doesn't. It makes for impossible victory conditions for those who value civilian life.
The worst part is we expect our friends and allies to apply the same standards when we know our enemies and theirs do not apply the same standards. One side worries about civilian casualties while the other doesn't. It makes for impossible victory conditions for those who value civilian life.
Posted on 9/13/14 at 9:17 am to Poodlebrain
quote:
Poodlebrain
Well said. The best part...
quote:
It is a life and death struggle between groups of people.
Correct. It is a contest of wills. And you have to have a cause that people are willing to sacrifice for. Did we? I honestly doubt it.
Posted on 9/13/14 at 9:19 am to Robin Masters
quote:
We were never attacked again on our home soil which I recall very well was a major fear and concern by every American in the years after9/11.
Fort Hood?
Boston Marathon?
Posted on 9/13/14 at 9:26 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
Fort Hood?
Boston Marathon?
Really? Thats your response...
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