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re: Not every or all _______ are bad
Posted on 9/9/14 at 3:15 pm to Tiger1242
Posted on 9/9/14 at 3:15 pm to Tiger1242
quote:Right. You can look at the Qu'ran and hadith yourself. Their religion teaches antagonism and violence to infidels. And before you pull out an inflammatory Bible quote, it is not analogous to certain Old Testament biblical scripture, due to widespread modern Christian theology (which largely focuses on Christ and his message of love, forgiveness, tolerance). It is also not analogous due to basic structural and historical differences in the two books, regardless of theology or interpretation, as I've gone into great detail in here before. The Qu'ran is much easier to take literally, the Bible has not been taken literally since at least 600 AD (official stance of the Church).
I'll admit that they use the Muslim religion to brainwash people into doing unthinkable things because that religion is the easiest one to manipulate to your agenda and say everyone is an "infidel" or whatever.
Isn't it possible that the Islamic faith is BAD? In the same way that faith in Aztec Religious Human Sacrifice was BAD? In the same way that faith in Mormon polygamy and racism was BAD?
2
Posted on 9/9/14 at 3:15 pm to genro
the religion is the the people.
We can criticize Christianity without criticizing christians
We can criticize Christianity without criticizing christians
Posted on 9/9/14 at 3:15 pm to The Spleen
quote:
Okay, what about all those anti-abortion activists that have killed doctors that perform abortions or have bombed abortion clinics? But not all anti-abortion folks are bad people, right?
Much better example than McVeigh (unless you want to use McVeigh for a proposition that all veterans are not sociopathic, terroristic bombing murderers.)
Eric Rudolph - a Christian Identity (essentially a white supremacist "Christian" cult), anti-abortion, anti-gay (very much in common with Westboro) who bombed, killed and maimed people.
Now, what percentage of extremist Christians is CI and other white supremacist type groups? And how many of them are brutal, barbaric killers?
Not really a comparable numerical analysis.
I'll concede that it is perhaps 1% of all Muslims on Earth who are actively participating in terror organizations or provide them logistic, material or other support.
That's an army of 10 to 12 million people. We need to stop pussyfooting around, identify and eliminate those 10 to 12 million, period. If the 99% want to help us - we should forge allegiance where we can. If they don't - I'm not going to actively target them, but if they're not part of the solution - they're part of the problem.
Posted on 9/9/14 at 3:16 pm to the808bass
It didn't help that we fricked over their nations (that the West created) for the most part since World War 1.
Maybe it's religion, maybe it's regionalism.
Maybe it's religion, maybe it's regionalism.
Posted on 9/9/14 at 3:19 pm to Tigah in the ATL
quote:
t didn't help that we fricked over their nations (that the West created) for the most part since World War 1.
That's one aspect many Americans want to ignore. What is our role in the rise of Islamic extremism? You go to parts of the ME that have been ravages with violence and bombings, and a lot of the leftover bombs and casings have USA on them. And we act surprised they hate us? And our solution is to just bomb them some more, or supply whatever other group is bombing them with more bombs?
Posted on 9/9/14 at 3:20 pm to Tigah in the ATL
quote:
it is inappropriate to criticize muslims as a group unless you are willing to criticize all religious people equally.
Really? So we must not criticize Satanists unless we criticize Catholics equally? Really?
Posted on 9/9/14 at 3:22 pm to genro
quote:
due to widespread modern Christian theology (which largely focuses on Christ and his message of love, forgiveness, tolerance). It is also not analogous due to basic structural and historical differences in the two books, regardless of theology or interpretation, as I've gone into great detail in here before. The Qu'ran is much easier to take literally, the Bible has not been taken literally since at least 600 AD (official stance of the Church).
Nobody who is educated on the matter will argue that Christianity is as inherently violent as Islam, because it isn't.
That being said, Christians conveniently ignore the significant role western society has played in shaping Christianity. The majority of European and American Christians largely ignore many aspects of the scripture that don't fit in with the current social norms of first world western society. Millions across the globe go so far as to alter the historical meaning of certain passages to fit into modern society, because the traditional understandings are not tolerated in this part of the world.
Society, as much or moreso than scripture itself, has turned Christianity into the religion we see today. In 1400, European Christianity was very comparable in oppression and violence to Islam today.
Posted on 9/9/14 at 3:23 pm to genro
quote:
Isn't it possible that the Islamic faith is BAD? In the same way that faith in Aztec Religious Human Sacrifice was BAD? In the same way that faith in Mormon polygamy and racism was BAD?
But I don't think it is bad. When you break it down Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all based of the same belief system. I don't believe Islam is any worse than Christianity. I believe there are a lot of people that use Islam to do horrible things, but I don't think that is a reflection on the religion itself
Posted on 9/9/14 at 3:26 pm to Revelator
quote:
Then you are part of the problem if you exclude their religious beliefs as a motivator in their atrocities even while proclaiming it.
History shows that when society has allowed for Christians to use violence to enforce their religious belief, they have used it.
Posted on 9/9/14 at 3:26 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:I'm mostly in agreement with you. One thing I would point to, in the West, was the Age of Enlightenment. Once it was complete, and the prevailing cultural ethos was that science and reason were the way to truth, Christianity began to fall by the wayside. In the US, a series of revivals and reforms over the centuries since have kept it alive. Theology changed. The religion adapted to the culture.
Roger Klarvin
Now how do we do that in the Middle East so they'll stop terrorizing the world? How do you begin that process?
This post was edited on 9/9/14 at 3:28 pm
Posted on 9/9/14 at 3:26 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
I'll admit that they use the Muslim religion to brainwash people into doing unthinkable things because that religion is the easiest one to manipulate to your agenda and say everyone is an "infidel" or whatever.
Why?
Why aren't Christians or atheists easily manipulated to stupid acts of barbarism like Muslims? There must be a reason.
Posted on 9/9/14 at 3:29 pm to Zach
quote:
Why aren't Christians or atheists easily manipulated to stupid acts of barbarism like Muslims? There must be a reason.
Because the vast majority of Christians and atheists live in the Americas, Western Europe and China while the vast majority of Muslims live in the Middle East and Africa.
It's really pretty simple.
This post was edited on 9/9/14 at 3:30 pm
Posted on 9/9/14 at 3:30 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Because the vast majority of Christians and atheists live in the Americas, Western Europe and China. It's really pretty simple.
So, the reason Muslims are wild arse pieces of shite is because of geography? Really?
Posted on 9/9/14 at 3:31 pm to Zach
quote:
Why aren't Christians or atheists easily manipulated to stupid acts of barbarism like Muslims? There must be a reason.
You ever heard of Nazis? Or the Crusades? They are manipulated just as easily, and there are Christian terrorist organizations today. The major ones are Muslim IMO mainly because of where they are located
Posted on 9/9/14 at 3:32 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
The major ones are Muslim IMO mainly because of where they are located
It's that damn geography again.
Posted on 9/9/14 at 3:33 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
ever heard of Nazis
So the NAZI's committed their atrocities because of Christianity?
Posted on 9/9/14 at 3:34 pm to Tiger1242
quote:You mean atheist Darwinian eugenics?
You ever heard of Nazis?
Posted on 9/9/14 at 3:35 pm to Zach
quote:the vast majority of people did not choose their religion, it was chosen for them.
Really? So we must not criticize Satanists unless we criticize Catholics equally?
Posted on 9/9/14 at 3:36 pm to Zach
quote:
So, the reason Muslims are wild arse pieces of shite is because of geography?
Well, because of culture and social norms but you're on the right track.
Christian Europe wasn't all that different from today's Middle East prior to the renaissance and the technological revolution. First world society simply left the type of social norms that allow for such barbarism in the dust.
Meanwhile, religious people of all types continue to slaughter each other in Africa.
The cultural dictation of religion is objectively undeniable.
Posted on 9/9/14 at 3:38 pm to Tigah in the ATL
quote:
Really? So we must not criticize Satanists unless we criticize Catholics equally? the vast majority of people did not choose their religion, it was chosen for them.
Answer my question. Should Satanists and Catholics be criticized equally? That was your assertion. Would you like to take it back?
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