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Message
re: The rise of the DIY abortion in Texas
Posted on 8/30/14 at 7:52 pm to SirWinston
Posted on 8/30/14 at 7:52 pm to SirWinston
Morning after pills cost 25 at walmart. There is no need to subsidize them. 
1
Posted on 8/30/14 at 11:52 pm to Sentrius
quote:You are free to say whatever you want. But murder is a legal term and abortion isn't murder. It isn't unlawful therefore it isn't murder.
This thread and nearly every other thread on this board is all about opinions and discussing such. My opinion is that abortion is murder but not murder in the sense where there's an evil mind behind it. There's gray areas all around.
And no matter how you try, a fetus is not a human being.
Posted on 8/30/14 at 11:53 pm to asurob1
quote:I watched. Missed the arse kicking.
Just go watch the game...take your arse kicking...then leave the board forever.
Thinking I might stick around.
Posted on 8/31/14 at 12:37 am to BuckyBadger
quote:
You are free to say whatever you want. But murder is a legal term and abortion isn't murder. It isn't unlawful therefore it isn't murder.
Argumentum Ab Auctoritate.
Just because a law says so doesn't make it right. We have had laws that allowed for fricked up things throughout human history. We had laws allowing for slavery. Should Rosa Parks have gone to the back of the bus? It's the law after all.
Argue your support for abortion on its own merits, not because the law says its ok. That's the point of a board like this by the way.
quote:
And no matter how you try, a fetus is not a human being.
Are you refuting science? The very same science that says that a fetus is the very beginnings of a human being after fertilization?
Posted on 8/31/14 at 12:47 am to Sentrius
quote:
Are you refuting science? The very same science that says that a fetus is the very beginnings of a human being after fertilization?
We have had this conversation before.
You can repaint the science to agree with you.
Mass of cells does not equal human being.
Posted on 8/31/14 at 2:37 am to Sentrius
Except I didn't say anything about the law being right. I said it is a legal term which you can use.
Please don't tell me what to argue when you have no idea what my position is.
Lastly, a clump of cells is no more a human than a severed hand. A zygote isn't a human. An embryo isn't a human. And a fetus at 20 weeks or so isn't a human.
Can you tell me why I should believe the soul is in a clump of cells when St. Augustine disagreed. Has science found the soul? Is there some new reason to believe the soul is present at conception?
St. Jerome: "The seed gradually takes shape in the uterus, and it [abortion] does not count as killing until the individual elements have acquired their external appearance and their limbs"
Can you explain why Pope Innocent is wrong in his belief in that it wasn't homicide if the fetus wasn't animated?
As did St. Thomas of Aquinas.
Should we believe Pope Sixtus 5 who believed in excommunication and the death penalty for abortionists or Pope Greg 14 who revoked Sixtus edict and reinstated the quickening test.
What if I'm a Jew? The Torah explicitly states that striking a woman and killing the fetus is not liable for its death, only the death of the woman. You do realize that the fetus is not recognized as full human in Judiasm?
Please don't tell me what to argue when you have no idea what my position is.
Lastly, a clump of cells is no more a human than a severed hand. A zygote isn't a human. An embryo isn't a human. And a fetus at 20 weeks or so isn't a human.
Can you tell me why I should believe the soul is in a clump of cells when St. Augustine disagreed. Has science found the soul? Is there some new reason to believe the soul is present at conception?
St. Jerome: "The seed gradually takes shape in the uterus, and it [abortion] does not count as killing until the individual elements have acquired their external appearance and their limbs"
Can you explain why Pope Innocent is wrong in his belief in that it wasn't homicide if the fetus wasn't animated?
As did St. Thomas of Aquinas.
Should we believe Pope Sixtus 5 who believed in excommunication and the death penalty for abortionists or Pope Greg 14 who revoked Sixtus edict and reinstated the quickening test.
What if I'm a Jew? The Torah explicitly states that striking a woman and killing the fetus is not liable for its death, only the death of the woman. You do realize that the fetus is not recognized as full human in Judiasm?
This post was edited on 8/31/14 at 2:40 am
Posted on 8/31/14 at 6:35 am to BuckyBadger
quote:
Can you tell me why I should believe the soul is in a clump of cells when St. Augustine disagreed. Has science found the soul? Is there some new reason to believe the soul is present at conception?
Here are a few reasons;
Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee
Psalms 139:13 For it was You who created my inward parts; You knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 I will praise You because I have been remarkably and wonderfully made.
16 Your eyes saw me when I was formless......
This post was edited on 8/31/14 at 8:05 am
Posted on 8/31/14 at 6:50 am to Homesick Tiger
quote:
Getting pregnant is a personal choice. Why should I have to subsidize a mistake you and your gf make?
Because it's cheaper for you to go ahead and subsidize the pill.
Posted on 8/31/14 at 8:24 am to Sentrius
quote:
Like I said, there's gray areas and not everything is black and white.
Only idiots deal in absolutes.
well with this debate, there is a "line"
on one side, the mass of cells is a human and killing it is murder. on the other side, it isn't murder
that's why this issue is a ball buster in terms of ideology. even libertarians have major discussions about abortion
at some point, it's murder. the question is when is that point along the developmental path
fwiw, the MAP prevents the cells from even joining, so it is obviously on the "not human" side of the scale
Posted on 8/31/14 at 8:26 am to BuckyBadger
quote:
You are free to say whatever you want. But murder is a legal term and abortion isn't murder. It isn't unlawful therefore it isn't murder.
well abortion certainly is immoral. i don't think we're arguing the actual current legal landscape
quote:
And no matter how you try, a fetus is not a human being.
when is that mass of cells a human being? i need an exact definition b/c after that point it's certainly murder
Posted on 8/31/14 at 8:29 am to BuckyBadger
quote:
Lastly, a clump of cells is no more a human than a severed hand. A zygote isn't a human. An embryo isn't a human. And a fetus at 20 weeks or so isn't a human.
well, from a scientific/philosophic perspective, here is the issue. that "clump of cells" or "fetus" isn't YOUR body, either. it's a combination of DNA from another person and your own DNA, so it is its own separate...thing, that will become its own separate being at a point
your dismissive attitude is exactly what is wrong with the "liberal" side of this argument. it's as ignorant and closed-minded as the religious whackos that think the MAP is wrong b/c it kills a life (when it takes action before anything even happens)
Posted on 8/31/14 at 8:33 am to BuckyBadger
quote:
You are free to say whatever you want. But murder is a legal term and abortion isn't murder. It isn't unlawful therefore it isn't murder.
So to you, what matters as far as moral issues is what's legal? So conversely, what's illegal would be immoral.
I didn't realize that politicians had so much power as to make things moral and immoral with the stroke of a pen?
This post was edited on 8/31/14 at 8:35 am
Posted on 8/31/14 at 8:35 am to Zahrim
quote:
walmart
quote:
There is no need to subsidize them.
Well, unless you want the People of Walmart to not reproduce
Of course, at that price libs should be able to afford to pay for it with their own money. Which is what they would do if they truly believed it was important.
Posted on 8/31/14 at 9:45 am to asurob1
quote:
You'd think that, unless of course they are afraid there is no heaven afterall.
Do you have kids? If so, who do you pray to? If you find out your kid is in a life threatening situation and you so "oh my God", who is that to?
Posted on 8/31/14 at 1:00 pm to BuckyBadger
You are biologically ignorant. Congrats.
Posted on 8/31/14 at 1:16 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
well abortion certainly is immoral.
To you. There are no absolutes. Abortion is another form of birth control to a great many people.
Posted on 8/31/14 at 1:18 pm to GeeOH
quote:
Do you have kids?
yup
quote:
If so, who do you pray to?
I'm smart enough to know that even if there was this all powerful guy in a white beard. He doesn't have time to help Florida State win another national title. I guess Jimbo will have to get it done on his own.
quote:
If you find out your kid is in a life threatening situation and you so "oh my God", who is that to?
I don't. My phrase is usually frickballs or holy shite!
Posted on 8/31/14 at 1:20 pm to asurob1
quote:
There are no absolutes
killing a human in cold blood is seen as immoral in every successful civilization. that's pretty absolute
quote:
Abortion is another form of birth control to a great many people.
shedding responsibility for past actions that may involve the killing of an innocent human isn't going to win many morality arguments
birth control is a proactive step taken prior to engaging in risky behavior. abortion is a reactive step taken when facing the consequences of engaging in risky behavior. they are not comparable
Posted on 8/31/14 at 4:49 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
killing a human in cold blood is seen as immoral in every successful civilization. that's pretty absolute
Yes this shouldn't be debatable.
Posted on 8/31/14 at 11:05 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
miso has been a lifeline
For who?
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