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re: What would the world be like if the NAZIs had won?
Posted on 8/27/14 at 9:10 am to UsingUpAllTheLetters
Posted on 8/27/14 at 9:10 am to UsingUpAllTheLetters
Kick arse uni's
And ....
Nazi Zombies duh.
And ....
Nazi Zombies duh.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 10:01 am to FT
Soccer would be the national past time.
Weiner Schnitzel would be served in all the stadiums.
Drinking your beer cold would be illegal.
The following words would be banned: "estimate" "more or less" "just about" "pretty near".
The highways wouldn't have speed limits.
Weiner Schnitzel would be served in all the stadiums.
Drinking your beer cold would be illegal.
The following words would be banned: "estimate" "more or less" "just about" "pretty near".
The highways wouldn't have speed limits.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 10:04 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Nazi Germany and the USSR had the same ideology.
Um, no, they didn't. Though this is a commonly regurgitated talking point by those who wish to uniformly link National Socialism with leftism.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 10:20 am to ChewyDante
The Nazis were totalitarians. The leftists in the US are totalitarians. Both believe in statism. Strong centralized govt with power over individual liberty.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 10:25 am to Zach
There's a book out there called Fatherland... read that.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 10:42 am to Zach
quote:In, if football is still just as big as it is now.
Soccer would be the national past time.
quote:In.
Weiner Schnitzel would be served in all the stadiums.
quote:Out.
Drinking your beer cold would be illegal.
quote:In.
The following words would be banned: "estimate" "more or less" "just about" "pretty near".
quote:Very in.
The highways wouldn't have speed limits.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 11:36 am to FT
Actually, I think Turtledove covered this subject extensively & quite well. Not sure what else could be added unless one would go off the deep end of what if's.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 1:01 pm to Keltic Tiger
Did he? I saw one where Japan invaded Pearl Harbor and one where like Aliens took over. Were there others?
Posted on 8/27/14 at 2:01 pm to Zach
quote:
The Nazis were totalitarians. The leftists in the US are totalitarians. Both believe in statism. Strong centralized govt with power over individual liberty.
Well while I wouldn't exactly refer to leftists in this country as "totalitarians" (though some may well be), I would agree that the Nazis were statist and authoritarian. That doesn't mean their ideology was the same as Marxism nor that of the American left today.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 2:15 pm to FT
To give you a serious and not flippant answer, I think you could have a consolidated Western Europe-- Eastern Europe would have been possible if the Nazi's were driven by conquest only as opposed to an insanely racist ideology (they were able to get a ton of help from a lot of Eastern European collaborators in Ukraine, Bulgaria etc taking advantage of both local anti-antisemitism and in the case of Ukraine, Soviet genocide-- ultimately the Aryan superiority thing would have split the collaborators off given that Nazi's wanted the slavs as well slaves).
If instead of razing areas, the Nazi's had sought corporate buy in from local industrialists they might have united Western Europe as a fascist state (though the UK is hard to envision a sea invasion is just almost impossible, D-Day works against a divided force with a massive coast line and total air superiority something that would have been almost impossible to achieve over Britain given the British advantages in radar-- I could see a standoff ala Taiwan in the 50s and 60s)
Logistics aside, I'm not sure the Nazi's could have lasted as a ruling party-- they're entire government was in a way a massive ponzi scheme with a large portion of the economic gains being based on unsustainable stimulus spending that needed to be fueled by continuous expansion, I just think once W. Europe is consolidated and infrastructure is built up (something they did relatively well), you have a ton of surplus Aryan workers who were previously employed as soldiers whose pre-Nazi jobs are taken up by your slave labor force who have nothing to do. Unless they were just going to crank out a Bug for every German and a Plane for every German, etc you'd have to cut way, way back on manufacturing which would collapse the economy-- they can't exactly shift primarily to consumer goods, exports, arms sales like the US did post-war because with a captive Europe who you primarily view as cheap labor you don't have a consumer audience for your products (unless they were intending to go all Vichy France for everyone)-- best case scenario for the Nazi's-- they run the Reich for half a century and collapse when they try to open up and modernize like the USSR did.
Even this seems optimistic as the Soviet Union for all its many, many flaws offered and very real issues (despite its ideology and propoganda) with race/nationality and religion did at least on the surface offer some benefits to member states and some semblance of equality the Reich would have been based at is very core around the idea that every non-German/Austrian member was inherently inferior-- can't see how that wouldn't have led to an even earlier and more explosive disintegration.
If instead of razing areas, the Nazi's had sought corporate buy in from local industrialists they might have united Western Europe as a fascist state (though the UK is hard to envision a sea invasion is just almost impossible, D-Day works against a divided force with a massive coast line and total air superiority something that would have been almost impossible to achieve over Britain given the British advantages in radar-- I could see a standoff ala Taiwan in the 50s and 60s)
Logistics aside, I'm not sure the Nazi's could have lasted as a ruling party-- they're entire government was in a way a massive ponzi scheme with a large portion of the economic gains being based on unsustainable stimulus spending that needed to be fueled by continuous expansion, I just think once W. Europe is consolidated and infrastructure is built up (something they did relatively well), you have a ton of surplus Aryan workers who were previously employed as soldiers whose pre-Nazi jobs are taken up by your slave labor force who have nothing to do. Unless they were just going to crank out a Bug for every German and a Plane for every German, etc you'd have to cut way, way back on manufacturing which would collapse the economy-- they can't exactly shift primarily to consumer goods, exports, arms sales like the US did post-war because with a captive Europe who you primarily view as cheap labor you don't have a consumer audience for your products (unless they were intending to go all Vichy France for everyone)-- best case scenario for the Nazi's-- they run the Reich for half a century and collapse when they try to open up and modernize like the USSR did.
Even this seems optimistic as the Soviet Union for all its many, many flaws offered and very real issues (despite its ideology and propoganda) with race/nationality and religion did at least on the surface offer some benefits to member states and some semblance of equality the Reich would have been based at is very core around the idea that every non-German/Austrian member was inherently inferior-- can't see how that wouldn't have led to an even earlier and more explosive disintegration.
This post was edited on 8/27/14 at 2:27 pm
Posted on 8/27/14 at 2:18 pm to JazzyJeff
quote:WTF?
A victorious Germany/Hitler would have been far better than what a victorious Russia/Stalin unleashed on the world.
Both were unspeakably evil, so not sure how your comparison matters.
You would have to fundamentally change the economics of the parties to make it work, like removing oil & gas from the US. Germany was defeated as soon as the US entered the war in North Africa, and held air dominance the entire war. Japan's defeat was also just a matter of time, and it is possible that even the Chinese could have eventually beaten them.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 2:23 pm to FT
You could just plagarize Fatherland by Robert Harris.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 2:23 pm to FT
I'm reading Man in the High Castle right now. I'll get back to you on that.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 2:30 pm to Sentrius
quote:
Their reign would still be limited to Europe as they still did not have enough of a military force and navy needed to conquer and occupy mainland united states and other continents
This, I mean the only reason the US could pull it off is having the UK as a friendly build up/ staging point and having the USSR sap 70% of the Nazi's strength. Maybe if the Japanese had been more successful and say a major South American nation had arisen to command that continent in the early 1900s, built up a military and joined with the Axis.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 2:31 pm to ChewyDante
quote:
Um, no, they didn't. Though this is a commonly regurgitated talking point by those who wish to uniformly link National Socialism with leftism.
Amazing what people think when Nazis put "Socialist" in their formal title for domestic purposes.
Hitler hated Marxism / Bolshevikism /Communism/"Socialism" & any other 'ism' the far right associates with the left.
He was hell bent on destroying Communism .
Posted on 8/27/14 at 2:32 pm to emcee422
quote:
Fatherland
Saw the movie. I was entertained. I liked the Holocaust twist.
quote:
Starship Troopers takes place in a future where the Nazis won WW2
So that explains all those white people in Buenos Aires. Son of a bitch....mind blown.
Posted on 8/27/14 at 2:34 pm to sugar71
quote:Exactly. People don't hate Democracy or Republics just because of the DPRK.
Amazing what people think when Nazis put "Socialist" in their formal title for domestic purposes.
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