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Started By
Message
re: Kareem Abdul Jabbar weighs in on pay for college athletes
Posted on 7/26/14 at 8:19 am to OutofTownAlumni
Posted on 7/26/14 at 8:19 am to OutofTownAlumni
And why is that a problem?
1
Posted on 7/26/14 at 8:39 am to pvilleguru
quote:They are adults. They are allowed to start their own businesses. What is keeping them from doing so and capitalizing on their services?
Probably the fact that they are teenagers.
Posted on 7/26/14 at 8:51 am to Dalosaqy
I don't get it. Aren't athletes technically getting "paid". They get free tuition, room and board, dining bucks that's roughly at least 30-40k a year they are getting "paid"
Posted on 7/26/14 at 9:14 am to pvilleguru
It's a problem because most agents are scum and they will promise too many things. Having kids leave school early and be out of their pro sport in 2 years.
Posted on 7/26/14 at 9:18 am to RTR America
I usually like Kareems comments, but I'm with rtr on this one.
I hate that inflammatory indentured servant bullshite language. One it is a not so subtle reference to blacks and slavery. Two it is fricking stupid. I paid and worked my way through 5 years of college with no support in or out of the classroom except myself. Busted arse to get a master's with honors, worked part time jobs almost the entire time to have enough money to survive and took out tens of thousands in loans that I had to pay back for years.
Athletes have all that taken care of. It's much more like they have a silver spoon in their mouth than an indentured servant in a sweat shop. Let them try it my way. Most would flunk out and quit immediately. And I could do it their way, no doubt about it. Would be fine switching places with one of them in a second.
I hate that inflammatory indentured servant bullshite language. One it is a not so subtle reference to blacks and slavery. Two it is fricking stupid. I paid and worked my way through 5 years of college with no support in or out of the classroom except myself. Busted arse to get a master's with honors, worked part time jobs almost the entire time to have enough money to survive and took out tens of thousands in loans that I had to pay back for years.
Athletes have all that taken care of. It's much more like they have a silver spoon in their mouth than an indentured servant in a sweat shop. Let them try it my way. Most would flunk out and quit immediately. And I could do it their way, no doubt about it. Would be fine switching places with one of them in a second.
Posted on 7/26/14 at 9:26 am to pvilleguru
quote:
but you could let players negotiate their own deals with Nike, Adidas, etc.
LOL You can't even possibly think this would work
Posted on 7/26/14 at 9:27 am to Dalosaqy
Stupidity.
Who is going to pay them anyway??
[link=(Just 23 of 228 athletics departments at NCAA Division I public schools generated enough money on their own to cover their expenses in 2012.)]Most NCAA Division I athletic departments take subsidies[/link]
Who is going to pay them anyway??
[link=(Just 23 of 228 athletics departments at NCAA Division I public schools generated enough money on their own to cover their expenses in 2012.)]Most NCAA Division I athletic departments take subsidies[/link]
quote:
Just 23 of 228 athletics departments at NCAA Division I public schools generated enough money on their own to cover their expenses in 2012.
Posted on 7/26/14 at 10:12 am to Dalosaqy
I wonder if Kareem does anything to support actual sweat shop workers.
Posted on 7/26/14 at 10:23 am to RTR America
quote:
The people who treat the issue like this infuriate me. I'm completely fine with the idea that players should get paid, but when someone makes an extreme comparison like this I can't help but shake my head.
Posted on 7/26/14 at 10:34 am to Tiger n Miami AU83
quote:True, but only because we are a racially sensitive culture in this regard. The term indentured servitude does not on its face carry any such meaning.
One it is a not so subtle reference to blacks and slavery
This post was edited on 7/26/14 at 10:35 am
Posted on 7/26/14 at 10:41 am to pvilleguru
quote:
Maybe not, but you could let players negotiate their own deals with Nike, Adidas, etc. Let them have jobs like normal students. Let them actually cash in on their own name.
When they become professionals they can do all that + get a salary. It isn't the NCAA's problem that the pro leagues won't let them.
Posted on 7/26/14 at 10:53 am to pvilleguru
quote:
Maybe not, but you could let players negotiate their own deals with Nike, Adidas, etc. Let them have jobs like normal students. Let them actually cash in on their own name.
1. The vast majority of the schools these athletes play for are sponsored by 1 apparel provider. Why would anybody but nike sign a player from Lsu or Florida? And then along those same lines, all of the players from Lsu and Florida are already required to wear nike apparel. What incentive would nike have give extra money to a player at a school they are already paying to wear their things anyway?
2. A huge argument for the pay athletes side is that the athletes need to be subsidized because their schedules don't allow time for a job, "like normal students" as you put it. Nike and Adidas wouldn't be interested in signing the backup deep snapper, but his schedule precludes him from getting a job just as much as the starting qb. So exactly what problems have been solved here?
This post was edited on 7/26/14 at 10:55 am
Posted on 7/26/14 at 12:56 pm to OutofTownAlumni
quote:
It's a problem because most agents are scum and they will promise too many things. Having kids leave school early and be out of their pro sport in 2 years.
How is that different from most coaches?
Posted on 7/26/14 at 1:31 pm to Open Your Eyes
quote:
2. A huge argument for the pay athletes side is that the athletes need to be subsidized because their schedules don't allow time for a job, "like normal students" as you put it. Nike and Adidas wouldn't be interested in signing the backup deep snapper, but his schedule precludes him from getting a job just as much as the starting qb. So exactly what problems have been solved here?
Student athletes get more monetary support than any other scholarship recipients at universities. They get plenty of freer stuff that other students do not. Just like academic scholarships, they are performance based. Don't perform academically while on scholarship, you lose it.
Also, indentured servants had no way out of their contracts. A college athlete can leave at any time without repercussion. They simply lose their scholarship. in the end the athlete whining is just pathetic.
Posted on 7/26/14 at 1:42 pm to Dalosaqy
Muslim
Posted on 7/26/14 at 2:15 pm to Dalosaqy
College athletes get far more benefits than the typical scholarship student. They are compensated plenty. No one is forcing them to be athletes.
Posted on 7/26/14 at 2:40 pm to Dalosaqy
I see them playing college ball/sports as an internship.
Some internships you don't get paid, but the company benefits off you by free labor. Internships are used for people to get a foot in the door (i.e. The draft for these students), right?
But these players in school, they get paid in different ways.
Food Stipends
Tutors
Scholarships to the school (I mean, lets be honest, half of these players at Ivy Leagues couldn't even get in)
Who's fault is it that they don't try hard to benefit from the academics of college, theirs.
Some internships you don't get paid, but the company benefits off you by free labor. Internships are used for people to get a foot in the door (i.e. The draft for these students), right?
But these players in school, they get paid in different ways.
Food Stipends
Tutors
Scholarships to the school (I mean, lets be honest, half of these players at Ivy Leagues couldn't even get in)
Who's fault is it that they don't try hard to benefit from the academics of college, theirs.
This post was edited on 7/26/14 at 2:41 pm
Posted on 7/26/14 at 2:59 pm to Dalosaqy
the sweat shop analogy is terrible because of hyperbole. if he just made a fairness argument and stuck to that much he would have been on solid footing.
The "sweat shops" in which college athletes play today are among the nicest facilities in the world. Should the athletes get some of the money from television revenue etc? Perhaps so, but if you argue for this you also have to make a comprehensive argument for how this affects Title IX (an argument the courts will respect). Ideally you should also discuss how the monies distributed will or won't likely affect the different levels of students playing either other sports or at less profitable schools.
The "sweat shops" in which college athletes play today are among the nicest facilities in the world. Should the athletes get some of the money from television revenue etc? Perhaps so, but if you argue for this you also have to make a comprehensive argument for how this affects Title IX (an argument the courts will respect). Ideally you should also discuss how the monies distributed will or won't likely affect the different levels of students playing either other sports or at less profitable schools.
Posted on 7/26/14 at 3:16 pm to molsusports
quote:
the sweat shop analogy is terrible because of hyperbole. if he just made a fairness argument and stuck to that much he would have been on solid footing.
Yep. If you want to attack an aspect of college sports that's really BS, it's the complete sham of the 20 hour weekly limit. In season, you have a lot of these kids putting in close to 40 hours (and not just for the glamor sports) and that really puts a wrench into class and study time. Assuming you'll even be allowed to take the class you want in the first place.
But, of course, it's really all about the cash.
Posted on 7/26/14 at 4:15 pm to Ponchy Tiger
quote:
Ok, here is a solution.
Pay all athletes but quit giving scholarships. If your getting paid then you pay for your own ride. Books, housing, food, everything.
I've been on this side for awhile.
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