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re: Young Earth Creationism and Public Schools...
Posted on 7/5/14 at 1:18 pm to FT
Posted on 7/5/14 at 1:18 pm to FT
quote:Science is plenty capable of representing itself. I am suggesting TEACHING! Not indoctrinating. Not protecting students from some sort of feared BS. Teach the material!
What are you suggesting? That we teach every possible idea, since science will win out, anyway?
Posted on 7/5/14 at 1:21 pm to NC_Tigah
We'd need a 78 hour school day to cover it all.
Posted on 7/5/14 at 1:23 pm to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Not really, especially given that it's supposedly inspired by the perfect creator. Multiple geographical and historical errors for starters is a big red flag.
This is false.
quote:
Moreover, there are multiple biblical prophecies that went unfulfilled.
Also false. Unless you're referring to the future second coming.
quote:
Evolution can explain all of these except for the origin of the universe, which theism equally fails at.
Evolution cannot explain morality. It has poor explanatory power for consciousness. The origin of life still lacks good explanation. The initiation of the Big Bang still needs a cause.
Posted on 7/5/14 at 1:24 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
I am quite settled (and comfortable) in my world view. Is there any reason you would believe that I did not come to my position without the same degree of thought and reflection that you did? Am I somehow a lesser form of humanity because I believe an all poweful God created the universe? Somehow less rigorous in my thought process? Less intelligent? Is that what you are insinuating?
Not at all, I'm suggesting that you are possibly so comfortable with what you were taught from birth that you have simply never legitimately questioned or put it to the test.
I think you would agree with me that billions of people today and throughout history have falsely believed things simply because it's what they were "indoctrinated" with. You obviously believe this is true of every Hindu, Buddhist and Muslim who ever lived. I'm simply suggesting that maybe you are one of those people. I know I was.
Posted on 7/5/14 at 1:25 pm to FT
quote:1 hour of class. That's it.
We'd need a 78 hour school day to cover it all.
Posted on 7/5/14 at 1:38 pm to Qwerty
quote:
This is false.
Just a very brief synopsis
LINK
One of the more glaring issues is the fact that the writers of the gospels very clearly didn't have a firm grasp of the geography of Israel and the surrounding areas. This is because they were written by affluent Greeks decades later and not by anyone who lived or walked with Jesus.
The Bible describes events that we know did not ever occur, such as the Roman census that required Joseph to return to his place of birth. We know from history that no such such census ever occurred. Additionally, the Bible has incorrect dates for events that we know occurred at a different time than it states they did.
quote:
Also false.
LINK
Just one example from the link above:
quote:
Destruction of Tyre
For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people. He shall slay with the sword thy daughters in the field: and he shall make a fort against thee, and cast a mount against thee, and lift up the buckler against thee. And he shall set engines of war against thy walls, and with his axes he shall break down thy towers. By reason of the abundance of his horses their dust shall cover thee: thy walls shall shake at the noise of the horsemen, and of the wheels, and of the chariots, when he shall enter into thy gates, as men enter into a city wherein is made a breach. With the hoofs of his horses shall he tread down all thy streets: he shall slay thy people by the sword, and thy strong garrisons shall go down to the ground. And they shall make a spoil of thy riches, and make a prey of thy merchandise: and they shall break down thy walls, and destroy thy pleasant houses: and they shall lay thy stones and thy timber and thy dust in the midst of the water. And I will cause the noise of thy songs to cease; and the sound of thy harps shall be no more heard. And I will make thee like the top of a rock: thou shalt be a place to spread nets upon; thou shalt be built no more: for I the LORD have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD. [2]
In this block of text God states quite blatantly that Nebuchadnezzar would completely sack and destroy the city of Tyre. However, the events given in this passage never did come to pass. After a 13 year siege, Nebuchadnezzar withdrew his forces. Tyre still exists. [4]
quote:
Evolution cannot explain morality.
Not true
Science can answer moral questions
The evolutionary explanation is not only widely accepted, it is observable in nature.
quote:
It has poor explanatory power for consciousness.
This is a joke, right?
quote:
The origin of life still lacks good explanation. The initiation of the Big Bang still needs a cause.
So does God
This post was edited on 7/5/14 at 1:40 pm
Posted on 7/5/14 at 1:39 pm to Roger Klarvin
Fair enough.
And my position remains the same. We each have lenses through which we view the world and interpret the information we see. And I view it through the world view of a Creator God who created me in His image.
I have had plenty of (incredibly painful) opportunities in life to test that world view. And there have been times when I was prepared to walk away from it. But the truth of God's word and the leading of the Holy Spirit have kept me on this path. And I know whom I have believed in. I have committed my life to Him and trust in His care.
And my position remains the same. We each have lenses through which we view the world and interpret the information we see. And I view it through the world view of a Creator God who created me in His image.
I have had plenty of (incredibly painful) opportunities in life to test that world view. And there have been times when I was prepared to walk away from it. But the truth of God's word and the leading of the Holy Spirit have kept me on this path. And I know whom I have believed in. I have committed my life to Him and trust in His care.
Posted on 7/5/14 at 1:51 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
Fair enough. And my position remains the same. We each have lenses through which we view the world and interpret the information we see. And I view it through the world view of a Creator God who created me in His image. I have had plenty of (incredibly painful) opportunities in life to test that world view. And there have been times when I was prepared to walk away from it. But the truth of God's word and the leading of the Holy Spirit have kept me on this path. And I know whom I have believed in. I have committed my life to Him and trust in His care.
Posted on 7/5/14 at 2:09 pm to Roger Klarvin
None of the arguments in your links are new, and have been addressed by biblical scholars. For example, the prophecy about tyre actually states that many nations will rise up and destroy tyre, not just Babylon. This is indeed what happened as it was conquered many times and ultimately destroyed, and to this day is a ruin. There is a nearby city called tyre but the original city was destroyed.
Science gives explanation for how some forms of morality gives populations or species a survival advantage. But it does not explain why I should feel guilt for committing a moral atrocity if I can get away with it.
As for God needing a cause, this is foolishness. He is self existent. Space/time/matter as self existent still needs a cause before it to set things in motion. God does not because he possesses self intelligence and the will to move and act on his own. We all know that something must be eternal, whether it be matter/space/time/physical laws, or God. God is the only of those choices with the intrinsic ability to create and to act without an alien prior cause.
Science gives explanation for how some forms of morality gives populations or species a survival advantage. But it does not explain why I should feel guilt for committing a moral atrocity if I can get away with it.
As for God needing a cause, this is foolishness. He is self existent. Space/time/matter as self existent still needs a cause before it to set things in motion. God does not because he possesses self intelligence and the will to move and act on his own. We all know that something must be eternal, whether it be matter/space/time/physical laws, or God. God is the only of those choices with the intrinsic ability to create and to act without an alien prior cause.
This post was edited on 7/5/14 at 2:10 pm
Posted on 7/5/14 at 2:31 pm to Qwerty
quote:
None of the arguments in your links are new, and have been addressed by biblical scholars.
They have been explained by theologians, but many biblical scholars acknowledge the problems. A very large number of modern biblical scholars are neither christian or jewish. Like so many you seem to get the terms confused, as few theologians are nearly as qualified as biblical scholars in this field.
quote:
For example, the prophecy about tyre actually states that many nations will rise up and destroy tyre, not just Babylon. This is indeed what happened as it was conquered many times and ultimately destroyed, and to this day is a ruin.
Tyre was never destroyed. It was sacked by Alexander the Great but never laid waste to. It exists today as the fourth largest city in Lebanon.
quote:
But it does not explain why I should feel guilt for committing a moral atrocity if I can get away with it.
Yes it does, and mutiple other species exhibit such behavior. Dogs, dolphins, chimps, cats, etc. all exhibit a wide range of emotions and morality. Dogs can feel shame and will often "mope" after doing something wrong even before being caught or punished.
quote:
He is self existent.
Convenient, but also irrelevant. If God can be eternal, then it is just as valid to postulate (as many do) that the universe in some form is eternal.
Posted on 7/5/14 at 3:10 pm to FT
I went to a private Catholic school for the entirety of my elementary school education. Not once did a teacher conclude that humans and dinosaurs walked the earth together. I seem to remember even going over Darwin's theory of evolution in 5th grade science.
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