The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question - Page 4 - TigerDroppings.com

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RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
89624 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

So physical injuries only proves who was winning the fight, not who started the fight.


They you lied. It does prove something.






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Antonio Moss
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
28746 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

Testimony isn't fact unless you believe everybody is honest.


Again, you keep using words you don't understand. Zimmerman's testimony is evidence in furtherance of the existence of a fact.

quote:

Neighbors didn't see the fight start. So let's only deal with FACTS.


Again, it corroborates Zimmerman's account which was given to police a very short time after the shot. It's difficult to believe that if he had made up story to feed to the police in the very short time he had to think about it that all of this other evidence would support that lie.

quote:

You are speculating because he doesn't have physical injuries that he must have started the fight.


I never said that. I said it supports Zimmerman's account that Martin started the altercation. It's just another piece among all the other evidence that support's Zimmerman.


quote:

The fat kid in the video I posted didn't have physical injuries but he didn't start the fight.


If it's the fat kid who powerbombs the little guy from Australia, then the fat kid would absolutely have some sign of battery. Whether it be bruising or redness from the spot he was hit, something would be apparent.


quote:

So physical injuries only proves who was winning the fight, not who started the fight.


Again with the "proves" nonsense. I've cited three pieces of physical evidence and one piece of unaffiliated witness testimony that corroborate Zimmerman's account. And there is no evidence present which disputes Zimmerman's account.

And this is what the jury realized as well.






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augrad00
Auburn Fan
Member since Nov 2010
1036 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


hahaha. Just doesn't prove who started the fight. Maybe in your world the aggressor always win the fight but not in reality.





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RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
89624 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

hahaha. Just doesn't prove who started the fight. Maybe in your world the aggressor always win the fight but not in reality.



No, you said it didn't prove anything, then you said it "proved" someone was winning the fight. Obviously it did prove something to you.

If Martin was kicking Zimmermans ass, that's the reason he is dead.






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augrad00
Auburn Fan
Member since Nov 2010
1036 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


There's testimony that Zimmerman started the fight. The girlfriend said Zimmerman started the fight. Here story matches Zimmerman story except who started the fight. She said TM ran and ZM on the phone with the police said TM was running. Why don't you believe her testimony?

The injuries doesn't support Zimmerman's account of who started the fight it only supports Zimmerman's account that he sustained head injuries from the attack. Just because one part of Zimmerman's story is collaborated doesn't mean that single piece of evidence collaborates the whole story. Zimmerman said Martin jumped out of the bushes. So because he has injuries on the back of his head and face, this proves Martin jumped out of the bushes? Speaking of the bushes part of Zimmerman story. I think it was BS. Because I saw his reenactment video and the bushes near the area where the fight took place were neatly trimmed to about 2 feet tall. Someone almost 6 feet all couldn't hide behind those very well. Zimmerman said Martin went for his gun. Does Zimmerman's injuries prove Martin went for his gun? There's a reason they submit multiple pieces of evidence. Each piece is used to prove a certain part of a story. There was no evidence present to prove who started the fight.






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augrad00
Auburn Fan
Member since Nov 2010
1036 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

If Martin was kicking Zimmermans ass, that's the reason he is dead.


If I was Zimmerman and I was getting my butt kick, I would probably have done the same thing if I had a gun. The part that I find questionable is Zimmerman hollering for help? Why holler for help if you help is concealed on your hip? The person streaming for help on the recording doesn't sound like he's being hit and head being pounded into the pavement while he's yelling for help? If it's Zimmerman, did TM stop pounding him to allow Zimmerman to yell for him then started back pounding him between yells? Another question. How did TM body end up face down in the grass?






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tigersaint26
LSU Fan
In front of my computer
Member since Sep 2005
1198 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


So let me get this straight.... You believe that

1. GZ called the cops to report someone suspicious
2. GZ tells them to come to the scene
3. GZ catches up to TM and starts an fight (knowing the cops are on the way)
4. TM (with no injuries from a brief altercation) runs away but somehow GZ catches him.
5. GZ starts another fight (still causes no injuries to TM)
6. TM then defends himself and beats the piss out of GZ so bad he broke his nose and smashed his head into concrete.

It was dark and raining and a 17 in shape kid couldn't run away fast enough to evade GZ?






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augrad00
Auburn Fan
Member since Nov 2010
1036 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


No, I believe this.
quote:

1. GZ called the cops to report someone suspicious
2. GZ tells them to come to the scene
3. GZ catches up to TM and starts an fight (knowing the cops are on the way,but as he stated on the phone with the dispatcher that "these a-holes always get away" meaning he knows the cops won't get there in time because that's been the pattern of the previous 9 calls he's made to report suspicious black males)
4. TM (with no injuries from a brief altercation) runs away but somehow GZ catches him. Zimmerman and the friend said that TM ran. But he ran before the confrontation not after
5. GZ starts another fight (still causes no injuries to TM. I believe Zimmerman tried to detain TM until the cops got there but TM wasn't haven't it)
6. TM then defends himself and beats the piss out of GZ so bad he broke his nose and smashed his head into concrete. I actually don't believe he grabbed Zimmerman's head and smashed it. It was raining so wet head would have been slippery. I believe he was on top of Zimmerman and when he punched Zimmerman in the face Zimmerman's head snapped back and hit the pavement.



This post was edited on 7/19 at 4:27 pm


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tigersaint26
LSU Fan
In front of my computer
Member since Sep 2005
1198 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

The part that I find questionable is Zimmerman hollering for help? Why holler for help if you help is concealed on your hip? The person streaming for help on the recording doesn't sound like he's being hit and head being pounded into the pavement while he's yelling for help?


Would TM (who is on top) be yelling for help? Why?






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augrad00
Auburn Fan
Member since Nov 2010
1036 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

Would TM (who is on top) be yelling for help? Why?
When Zimmerman got to his gun, TM realize he was screwed, then he got off of him. That's probably why TM said "you got me". This would make since to why the body was found in the grass 3 feet away from the pavement. He yelled for help because he knew he was about to get shot for beating the crap out of this guy. That's how it's done on the First 48.






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Antonio Moss
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
28746 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

here's testimony that Zimmerman started the fight. The girlfriend said Zimmerman started the fight. Here story matches Zimmerman story except who started the fight. She said TM ran and ZM on the phone with the police said TM was running. Why don't you believe her testimony?


That's a great question and it goes to show my point about credibility.

Jeantel didn't testify at trial that Zimmerman started the fight. She testified that she heard pushing and shoving and then loss contact with Martin. She only added the "Zimmerman started it" part after trial while on the media circuit. This adds to list of inaccuracies in the account of what happened:

She lied about why she didn't attend the funeral
She lied about her age in the deposition
She lied about who was at the scene (making up a name at one point)
She gave three different accounts of what she heard to Martin's parents, Crump, and in the deposition. And then changed the story again when she went on Piers Morgan.

So, in short, no I don't believe her. She has shown the propensity to lie about this event. On the other hand, Zimmerman's account was corroborated with other evidence.






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JohnnyKilroy
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Oct 2012
8347 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


Lulz





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tigersaint26
LSU Fan
In front of my computer
Member since Sep 2005
1198 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


But TM was still leaning over GZ when he was shot. That was the testimony of the expert for the defense. He didn't just yell for help once but for a good 40 seconds. GZ just stood there looking at him waiting to pull the trigger for 40 seconds while TM was screaming?





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Antonio Moss
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
28746 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

When Zimmerman got to his gun, TM realize he was screwed, then he got off of him. That's probably why TM said "you got me". This would make since to why the body was found in the grass 3 feet away from the pavement. He yelled for help because he knew he was about to get shot for beating the crap out of this guy.


Except the bullet trajectory discounts this theory.



quote:


That's how it's done on the First 48.








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RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
89624 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:


3. GZ catches up to TM and starts an fight (knowing the cops are on the way)


I think he actually believes that. Seriously.

Makes absolutely no sense. The most likely scenario is Martin saw Zimmerman following and went back to confront him.






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tigersaint26
LSU Fan
In front of my computer
Member since Sep 2005
1198 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


Even if you believe Jeantel's testimony GZ never started the fight

7:09 GZ calls 911
7:11 GZ states TM is running (Jeantel confirms)
7:13 GZ gives up and ends 911 call (looking for address he says)
7:15 Jeantel says that GZ says "What you doing around here?" Then TM says "Get off me"--not stop hitting me or anything--just get off. Sounds like GZ might have touched him when he asked him about what you doing around here.
The phone shuts off.
7:16 TM was shot

Even by her account GZ never punched him. Just the phone shut off. You can say "He might have punched him after the phone turned off". But why would GZ have gone up to ask him a question if his motivation was to beat the crap out of him and then shoot him?

The story that makes sense is that GZ might have touched him on the arm while asking his question. TM took exception (since he was pissed that GZ might be a stalker rapist) and TM started beating the mess out of him.






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RhodeIslandRed
LSU Fan
Adrift Off the Spanish Main
Member since Aug 2009
3175 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

Neither was legally right at all times, neither was legally wrong at all times,


I stopped reading here.






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augrad00
Auburn Fan
Member since Nov 2010
1036 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


The needing to find an address part doesn't make sense either. Addresses are the front near the street. Why did ZZimmerman go behind the apartments to get an address?





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augrad00
Auburn Fan
Member since Nov 2010
1036 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


Or Zimmerman could have knocked the phone out of TM hand





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tigersaint26
LSU Fan
In front of my computer
Member since Sep 2005
1198 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


Or maybe TM threw it down to have both hands free so he could beat up GZ.





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