The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question - Page 2 - TigerDroppings.com

Posted byMessage
Antonio Moss
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
28716 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

You really suck at hypotheticals.


Unfounded hypotheticals play no role in the application of law based on evidence. augrad's post was full of inaccuracies based on actual events. There is no need for hypotheticals.






Back to top
goatmilker
New Orleans Saints Fan
2014 drunkin Bobby award winner!
Member since Feb 2009
14915 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


The only way anything would be better is for neither to have been killed.

No.

Morally just? Don't know now don't know then. Legally just would have been judged in the courts.

OJ got off. Didn't help a damn thing.






Back to top
Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
24213 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:


How believable do you think that story would have been? Do you think your boy Tray would have stuck around after he killed Zimmerman to wait for the police or ran away? Forensics would have probably been just as probative of the facts.


The police was there less than a minute after the gun went off.

There was no blood on Tray's hands, no marks on his right fist (he's right handed) and there is a one minute gap from the time GZ hung up the phone with the police and when the fight occurred.

The state could not show what happened in that one minute time frame. GZ definitely wasn't walking back to his car. He would have made it back in one minute.

So let's look at this hypothetically... we have an armed man Mr. Smith, following Mr. Jones in the back of building. Mr. Smith had hung up the phone one minute before when the operator told him he didn't need to be following Mr. Jones. A fight breaks out and the Mr. Smith is shot and killed.

Mr. Jones says Mr. Smith came at him with a gun and he was able to struggle with him, punch him, Mr. Smith fell on the sidewalk, Mr. Jones gets the gun and shoots Mr. Smith.

If both are white, does the police believe Mr. Jones?

If Mr. Jones is Trayvon Martin, does the police believe him?




This post was edited on 7/19 at 12:49 pm


Back to top
90proofprofessional
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2004
8594 posts
 Online 

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

because the Stand Your Ground law doesn't apply to him like the lady sentenced to 20 years for Standing her Ground against her abusive husband/boyfriend/whatever

still lacking a basic understanding of the facts & relevant laws in either case I see






Back to top
GRTiger
USA Fan
On a roof eating alligator pie
Member since Dec 2008
17670 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

2) Stand your ground or self defense would not have been available to Martin because all evidence suggests that he was the aggressor and at no point prior to Zimmerman's defense of himself was Martin's life or bodily health in danger.


It doesn't matter who the aggressor was. If Trayvon shot Zimmerman with his own gun, Stand Your Ground most likely could have been proven fairly easily without any other evidence. Actually, self defense probably would have been used, since the claim that Trayvon was the aggressor came from Zimmerman, who would be dead in the hypothetical.

Of course, if it had happened that way, we would have never heard of this story.






Back to top
Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
24213 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:


Unfounded hypotheticals play no role in the application of law based on evidence


This entire thread is a hypothetical and I'm basing it on the blood and injuries of the two and the phone call. I'm sorry you're too slow to understand.



This post was edited on 7/19 at 12:51 pm


Back to top
Antonio Moss
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
28716 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

This entire thread is a hypothetical and I'm basing it on the blood and injuries of the two and the phone call. I'm sorry you're too slow to understand.


No, you're picking and choosing which evidence to look at. You're ignoring Zimmerman's injuries which are consistent with his account, the angle of the gunshot - also consistent with Zimmerman's account - and you're ignoring the testimony of the neighbor who witnessed Martin on top of Zimmerman during the altercation.

The sum of the evidence, at best, exonerates Zimmerman and, at worst, prevents a verdict beyond a reasonable doubt.






Back to top
Antonio Moss
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
28716 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

It doesn't matter who the aggressor was. If Trayvon shot Zimmerman with his own gun, Stand Your Ground most likely could have been proven fairly easily without any other evidence. Actually, self defense probably would have been used, since the claim that Trayvon was the aggressor came from Zimmerman, who would be dead in the hypothetical.


You would still have to deal with Zimmerman's injuries and the testimony of the neighbor, but it would not be an easy case to convict without Zimmerman's account.






Back to top
Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
24213 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:


No, you're picking and choosing which evidence to look at. You're ignoring Zimmerman's injuries which are consistent with his account, the angle of the gunshot - also consistent with Zimmerman's account - and you're ignoring the testimony of the neighbor who witnessed Martin on top of Zimmerman during the altercation.


No I'm not. I specifically said "blood and injuries of the two and the phone call" and I'll throw in the neighbors testimony and forensic evidence.

And the injuries were also consistent with my hypo.

It's a question. Not a conclusion.

Take the stick out of your arse and enjoy the day.







Back to top
CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
46291 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

The police was there less than a minute after the gun went off.


Your boy Tray could have done 400 yards in a minute.

quote:

There was no blood on Tray's hands,


I thought we were assuming different facts and Tray was the shooter, you have powder burn evidence, residue on hands all entire different set of facts

quote:

If both are white, does the police believe Mr. Jones?


Depends on the physical evidence and the story told by Mr Jones.






Back to top
trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
16016 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

What was Zimmerman's legal wrong? If there was one the guy would have been convicted of whatever it is you are suggesting.

By your logic, O.J. didn't do anything wrong.
quote:

A kid with a sketchy criminal background

Irrelevant gossip
quote:

beats up and kills a homeowner for no reason and he walks?

Being attacked by a stalker is a pretty good reason in my book.
quote:

It would not have been a cause for the race mongers , but Trayvon would have had a hard time explaining the death in any legal manner.

Not to a reasonable person.
quote:

Zimmerman's version made sense.

Zimmerman's story had holes in it which is why he didn't take the stand.






Back to top
augrad00
Auburn Fan
Member since Nov 2010
1033 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

Stand your ground or self defense would not have been available to Martin because all evidence suggests that he was the aggressor and at no point prior to Zimmerman's defense of himself was Martin's life or bodily health in danger.


What evidence showed this? Just because TM was on top?







Back to top
augrad00
Auburn Fan
Member since Nov 2010
1033 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

You're ignoring Zimmerman's injuries which are consistent with his account


How does this prove who the aggressor was? Here's an example of injuries not proving who the aggressor was.

Skinny bully gets owned

If we look at the injuries sustained by the little skinny kid, we would conclude that the fat kid was the aggressor.



This post was edited on 7/19 at 1:38 pm


Back to top
CarrolltonTiger
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2005
46291 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

By your logic, O.J. didn't do anything wrong.


I suggested no such thing with my logic. What legal wrong do you think Zimmerman committed? I think OJ murdered two people.

I suppose you are suggesting the jury verdicts determine the facts, and the Blacks on the OJ jury didn't engage in jury nullification.












Back to top
ljhog
Arkansas Fan
Lake Jackson, Tx.
Member since Apr 2009
9913 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

Neither was legally right at all times

Zimmerman was.
quote:

philosophical questions

No, no, no, and hell no.






Back to top
augrad00
Auburn Fan
Member since Nov 2010
1033 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


Neither were committing a crime. TM was being prosecuted in the conservative media for smoking pot and teenage mischief, things Zimmerman wasn't privy to prior to following the kid. Zimmerman used an old police tactic called racial profiling. He assumed that TM was apart of an alleged black male group that he made previous non emergency 911 calls concerning minor burglary in the neighborhood.


This post was edited on 7/19 at 2:23 pm


Back to top
rpg37
LSU Fan
Walls, MS
Member since Sep 2008
16510 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

Amazing what being the son of a judge will do when you're arrested huh.


Wow, you're assuming he did illegal things and was swept under the rug. Just wow. Hispanic privilege in the country has sucked for years!






Back to top
TheDoc
LSU Fan
doc is no more
Member since Dec 2005
99297 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

Neither was legally right at all times


Tell me one thing Zimmerman did that was illegal






Back to top
Antonio Moss
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
28716 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

Tell me one thing Zimmerman did that was illegal


Without conjecture, it's impossible ... and that's been my point the entire time.

augrad and VB want to rely on hypotheticals that have no ground in evidence (VB more for argument, augrad because he lacks the cognitive ability to decipher between established facts and conjecture.)

Does that mean that it's absolutely certain Zimmerman did nothing illegal that night? No, of course not. It simply means that there is no substantive fact available which suggests that he did anything illegal that night.






Back to top
TheDoc
LSU Fan
doc is no more
Member since Dec 2005
99297 posts

re: The Simplest Summary of the Martin-Zimmerman Ordeal And a Philosophical Question


quote:

Neither were committing a crime.










Back to top


Back to top




//