Critical speech *expert* testimony...in Travon Martin trial - Page 4 - TigerDroppings.com

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Beer Bryant
Alabama Fan
In a Hidden Bunker
Member since Jan 2012
8792 posts

re: Critical speech *expert* testimony...in Travon Martin trial


quote:

Okay

This doesn't dispute my claim.



What's ridiculous is that some "Black leaders" are trying to use this as a way to say that this is the big problem for Blacks, other peoples racism against them. No, it actually rarely happens. The BIG problem is Black on Black violence. But that is a problem that gets ignored by media and government "leaders". 20 White kids get shot at Sandy Hook, the media, Obama and everyone else is on it like stink on shiit trying to push an agenda. Avg 10 killings a week like in Chicago last year, or multiple deaths a night in Chicago, Detroit, LA, etc., any day of the week, it gets only local attention. And not much of that.






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EthanL
LSU Fan
Auburn,AL
Member since Oct 2011
2990 posts

re: Critical speech *expert* testimony...in Travon Martin trial


quote:

civil rights violations


Not even close. Absolutely no case for that, and besides, just not true in my opinion.







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Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
24213 posts

re: Critical speech *expert* testimony...in Travon Martin trial


quote:

A soccer referee was killed about a month ago from one punch. How much of a beating does one person have to take. If they both had chosen to not fight this would be a moot issue. They both chose to be in this area and probably both did something wrong to start or escalate this fight. It's wrong of anyone to think they can fight someone and something really bad not happen.

I see your point but you're assuming both wanted to fight.

Since you're assuming, let's assume Trayvon didn't want to fight but thought Z was going to jump him. Here was this Latino guy following him late at night. Trayvon was protecting himself.

If I'm walkin alone at night and someone is following me and I jump him to protect myself, should I be killed?

quote:

Treyvon didn't live there. Zim did. Zim acted like the po po and confronted Trey. Somehow or someway a fight broke out. Then gun get pulled and now Trey is dead. Trey should have either ran away when confronted or backed down. Zim shouldn't have confronted the kid. 2 wrongs on both parts and hind site is 20/20. Zim was all beat up no denying that, pics prove it. Short of a witness saying he shot this kid execution style, Zim will walk.

Wasn't Trayvon at one of his parent's home? I don't remember. Seems like.

Like most cases, we seem extreme scenarios to justify actions or punish actions. I do not believe Z shot him execution style. I do not believe Tray was up to no good. I think Z was trying to do his "duty" and Tray was trying to protect himself. Z had options to avoid this. He took the stupid way out.

It wasnt murder. It wasn't manslaughter. And it's been too long since I took criminal to figure if it was a lesser offense. But Z was wrong.






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genro
Penn Fan
Tuscaloosa (not Austin)
Member since Nov 2011
28851 posts

re: Critical speech *expert* testimony...in Travon Martin trial


quote:

At what point can you kill the person who is beating you up?
If, in your opinion, your life is threatened.
Wow.



You just threatened my life, in my opinion. Time to die






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Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
24213 posts

re: Critical speech *expert* testimony...in Travon Martin trial


A sidewalk is pretty thin. Seems like if I'm having my head beat on a sidewalk, I roll over into the grass.





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DumbCollegeKid
LSU Fan
Steens,Ms
Member since Apr 2013
547 posts

re: Critical speech *expert* testimony...in Travon Martin trial


Trayvon was so afraid of a confrontation that he started it.





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dante
LSU Fan
Kingwood, TX
Member since Mar 2006
7457 posts
 Online 

re: Critical speech *expert* testimony...in Travon Martin trial


quote:

At what point can you kill the person who is beating you up? If, in your opinion, your life is threatened.


Do you even read what you write.....if you are beating me up I have a right to defend myself. You and I are both making certain assumptions. You are assuming I was the aggressor and got my arse whipped so I shot you. I am assuming you were the aggressor and I shot you in self defense. One of these scenarios is murder, the other is not.



This post was edited on 6/8 at 11:47 am


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genro
Penn Fan
Tuscaloosa (not Austin)
Member since Nov 2011
28851 posts

re: Critical speech *expert* testimony...in Travon Martin trial


quote:

Do you even read what you write.....if you are beating me up I have a right to defend myself. You and I are both making certain assumptions. You are assuming I was the aggressor and got my arse whipped so I shot you. I am assuming you were the aggressor and I shot you in self defense. One of these scenarios is murder, the other is not.
The moment you pull out your gun. I will stop being aggressive. There's no need to shoot the gun at all, let alone kill me. In fact you don't even need to pull it out, just reveal it. Visually. Audibly. It doesn't matter

If at that point after I have become docile due to you producing a gun, you then kill me, that is murder.


GZ had to take his gun out first. He had to pull the trigger for this to happen.


Are we making the enormous assumption that Trayvon was also a madman who didn't care about his own life and would continue to attack when faced with a gun?



This post was edited on 6/8 at 11:55 am


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The Pain Train
USA Fan
Member since Feb 2013
1977 posts
 Online 

re: Critical speech *expert* testimony...in Travon Martin trial


ABC News LINK

The FBI's leading expert pretty much ripped apart those "experts" and called their ability to draw such a conclusion "disturbing."

quote:

The FBI's leading forensic audio expert said much the same in his testimony Thursday. Dr. Horotaka Nakasone called it "disturbing" that someone would be able to make a positive voice identification based on the screams.


ABC News is now saying that the screamer is more likely by a significant margin to have been George Zimmerman but agrees with the FBI that no definitive identification can be made.

quote:

ABC News has exclusively obtained a sample of Martin's voice and sent the short sample, gathered as evidence from Martin's cell phone, to a forensic analyst. Kent Gibson of Forensic Audio tells ABC News that a comparison of Martin's voice, Zimmerman's voice and the screams on the 911 tape, indicate the voice is more likely to be Zimmerman than Martin by a significant margin.

However, he adds, so much of the howling and pleading overheard on that 911 tape is muffled or obscured, that only two seconds of the tape are useable. Therefore, he says, that there can be no definitive identification of "the screamer."







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dante
LSU Fan
Kingwood, TX
Member since Mar 2006
7457 posts
 Online 

re: Critical speech *expert* testimony...in Travon Martin trial


quote:

The moment you pull out your gun. I will stop being aggressive
that might be true for you, but not necessarily true of others. There have been numerous times unarmed intruders are shot and the homeowner is justified in self defense. Police often shoot unarmed victims.

You are assuming that only like force can be used in self-defense. If I have no desire to enter into a physical confrontation with you, I can use whatever means necessary to prevent it. One option is run, one option is to try and talk you out of it. One option is to use force.






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genro
Penn Fan
Tuscaloosa (not Austin)
Member since Nov 2011
28851 posts

re: Critical speech *expert* testimony...in Travon Martin trial


quote:

Police often shoot unarmed victims.
I know.






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dante
LSU Fan
Kingwood, TX
Member since Mar 2006
7457 posts
 Online 

re: Critical speech *expert* testimony...in Travon Martin trial


Oops. I err meant criminal. That one comment did not help my cause.





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genro
Penn Fan
Tuscaloosa (not Austin)
Member since Nov 2011
28851 posts

re: Critical speech *expert* testimony...in Travon Martin trial


In most cases involving police, I think it's even more egregious. There are multiple cases of state troopers in Alabama who have essentially murdered because of a personal vendetta and gotten off with a slap on the wrist.

It's especially egregious because police officers are supposed to be trained in how to use their force. Many times, maybe not always, you don't have to shoot the person in the head or heart to incapacitate them. Taze them. Shoot them in the leg. Fire a warning shot. Maybe not every reaction is possible in every instance, but I think usually something else could've been done.

It takes a hell of a case - something like the face-eating man in Miami - to convince me that lethal force was justified against an unarmed person.

9 times out of 10 if a person, police or otherwise, kills an unarmed person, something very fishy is going on.

That's just my view.



This post was edited on 6/8 at 12:19 pm


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TrueTiger
LSU Fan
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
9954 posts

re: Critical speech *expert* testimony...in Travon Martin trial


quote:

Oops. I err meant criminal. That one comment did not help my cause.


Hold on, don't be to quick too condemn yourself.

They are legally innocent until proven guilty, despite being shot.

How about, "police shoot criminal suspects"?



This post was edited on 6/8 at 12:35 pm


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Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
24213 posts

re: Critical speech *expert* testimony...in Travon Martin trial


quote:

Trayvon was so afraid of a confrontation that he started it.

He jumped him. Which is what you would do if you thought someone was following you in the shadows.

Somehow I think if Tray was following Z, a vice versa situation, and Z shot tray, you'd defend Z. Because it seems like you believe one can defend himself with a gun but not his fists.






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Roaad
LSU Fan
Bushrod Owns
Member since Aug 2006
52230 posts

re: Critical speech *expert* testimony...in Travon Martin trial


quote:

What would you call it?
A violent beating.






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RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
89684 posts

re: Critical speech *expert* testimony...in Travon Martin trial


quote:


He jumped him. Which is what you would do if you thought someone was following you in the shadows.



Probably not. I've been followed before, and figured a confrontation would end badly.






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dante
LSU Fan
Kingwood, TX
Member since Mar 2006
7457 posts
 Online 

re: Critical speech *expert* testimony...in Travon Martin trial


quote:

In most cases involving police, I think it's even more egregious
I wish I had not even mentioned the police because I agree with you and that opens the door for a completely different argument.

I think the basis for your argument is that no one should ever be shot when they are unarmed. Not all people are the same size and have the same strength so a gun becomes the ultimate equalizer.

Let me ask you this question. Hypothetically, if Travyon was on top of GZ beating him and GZ was able to get his hands around TM throat and choke him to death. Would that be justifiable, assuming that TM was the aggressor?







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Tigah in the ATL
LSU Fan
Atlanta
Member since Feb 2005
23858 posts

re: Critical speech *expert* testimony...in Travon Martin trial


quote:

Just curious...if you were the Judge...what sentence would you bring?
I would probably wait until the trial to decide.






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dante
LSU Fan
Kingwood, TX
Member since Mar 2006
7457 posts
 Online 

re: Critical speech *expert* testimony...in Travon Martin trial


quote:

Probably not. I've been followed before, and figured a confrontation would end badly.
If I thought I was being followed, I would probably leave the area as quickly as possible. If I felt threatened would probably call the police.






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