Very good article about selling CP3 to comeback to New Orleans - Page 3 - TigerDroppings.com

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42
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Apr 2012
3574 posts

re: Very good article about selling CP3 to comeback to New Orleans


I'm not sure that's exactly the case. They have tons of actual cash and nearly pristine books after the coming season.

And you bringing up Dallas of course begs the question: Would Dwight go to Dallas? What do they have to offer? That 2 man team with Nowitzki? How is that better than the Lakers?

It's actually very interesting there with the Lakers. Especially if they use the Amnesty on Kobe, Pau, or Metta. Most Especially Kobe.

It's all very interesting.






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St Augustine
New Orleans Saints Fan
The Pauper of the Surf
Member since Mar 2006
42087 posts

re: Very good article about selling CP3 to comeback to New Orleans


The appeal of LA will definitely lure more pieces very soon though.





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VOR
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2009
40599 posts

re: Very good article about selling CP3 to comeback to New Orleans


quote:

Especially if they use the Amnesty on Kobe


Never. Will. Happen.






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corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
5269 posts

re: Very good article about selling CP3 to comeback to New Orleans


How would amnestying anyone other than Kobe help?

I'm seeing they have $78million (inclusive) on the books for 8 players. Axing Metta doesn't do much- below the apron. Axing Gasol gets the below the cap and some room to play with, but they have no assets to trade.

You are a cap/CBA guru. No sarcasm or smartassery, just a legit question: what options do they have, especially if they resign Howard?

I'm sure they will pull something off because Lakers. But im fascinated by what they could do next summer.






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VOR
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2009
40599 posts

re: Very good article about selling CP3 to comeback to New Orleans


quote:

How would amnestying anyone other than Kobe help?


IMO, that is highly, highly unlikely unless Kobe cooperates and has reached a "nod and a wink" kind of deal with the Lakers for the following season (if that's even possible under the CBA). I'm not saying this position makes the best basketball sense, but it damned sure makes PR sense in L.A.






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Gtothemoney
UNO Fan
Da North Shore
Member since Sep 2012
6375 posts

re: Very good article about selling CP3 to comeback to New Orleans


You think the Watts Riots or Rodney King Riots was bad? Let them amnesty Kobe.......





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corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
5269 posts

re: Very good article about selling CP3 to comeback to New Orleans


oh I agree with you completely.

baby buss isnt a favorite as it is. amnesty of kobe would cause riots.

edit- gtothemoney

and shite I wouldn't want to piss off kobe. even at 35, coming off achilles surgery. he would make it his lifes mission to ruin that franchise.



This post was edited on 5/5 at 10:59 am


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42
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Apr 2012
3574 posts

re: Very good article about selling CP3 to comeback to New Orleans


quote:

How would amnestying anyone other than Kobe help?


It gives them some relief in the pocketbook while allowing them to retain Kobe's Bird Rights, which will allow them to sign him to a deal of any reasonable size regardless of the team's salary situation.

If they are in tax territory starting in 2014-2015, they'll start paying repeater tax, so they really need to be blow the line for that and the next season to really stay away from it.

Amnestying Metta saves money only really. Amnestying Pau allows them to save money money and sign Dwight without adding an enormous tax expense (remember, it's progressive, so any player you amnesty saves money at the highest marginal rate which is determined after you complete your roster). This may be superior to trading him to get a short term asset back if what you want it to save money.

Keeping Kobe's Bird Rights is key (if you think the PR matters more than straight basketball operations budgeting) because you can build the team you need to build and then slide Kobe in. Amnestying him means you have to treat him like any other player, and he is most certainly not even if he plays like Devin Brown when he returns.

Thoughts?






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teke184
LSU Fan
Zachary, LA
Member since Jan 2007
8059 posts

re: Very good article about selling CP3 to comeback to New Orleans


They lose Kobe's Bird rights if they amnesty him.


That being said, they need to get the rehab opinion on Kobe's Achilles. If he won't be back until March and won't be 100% until the next season, if ever, then saving roughly $45 million in luxury tax by dumping him should be a strong possibility.

Insurance covers 80% of his contract amount, but not the insane luxury tax that goes with a $30m contract.






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Fun Bunch
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since May 2008
23351 posts

re: Very good article about selling CP3 to comeback to New Orleans


If he's amnestied he has to sit out a year and no teams would have bid on him.

He's not sitting out a year. Kobe will be playing by February I'll bet.






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teke184
LSU Fan
Zachary, LA
Member since Jan 2007
8059 posts

re: Very good article about selling CP3 to comeback to New Orleans


He does not have to sit out a year if amnestied.

Teams can put in a bid on him and, if he passes through with no bids, he is considered a free agent and the Lake Show is on the hook for the entire contract.


If he is back before the roster deadline for the playoffs, a contender will offer him a one year deal.






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Fun Bunch
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since May 2008
23351 posts

re: Very good article about selling CP3 to comeback to New Orleans


He does if he wants to play for the Lakers, which was my point.





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42
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Apr 2012
3574 posts

re: Very good article about selling CP3 to comeback to New Orleans


quote:

They lose Kobe's Bird rights if they amnesty him.



This is a key point that I tried to drive home above.

And it's all about the tax. They can do a good deal of saving by letting Pau go.

All of that is correct about Kobe not having to sit out, etc. Any team that bid on him and won would have his Bird Rights, as well, complicating any return to the Lakers if they are limited in their possible offers.

Their savings may be much higher than $45m as well, since the tax is progressive. Once they sign other players, if Kobe's entire contract is the only thing putting them over the tax line (strong possibility if Pau and Metta stay along with Dwight), then it's more like $85m. More if there is more doing so, less if they are under without his contract, which they are right now with a slim roster.

Plus his salary, minus insurance, which is more like $6m, making the cost of carrying him $91m.

The cost of carrying Pau is his approximately $19m plus about $60m in tax, depending on other moves, bringing the total cost of carrying him, or an equivalent bundle of salary, to about $80.

So are Kobe's Bird Rights worth $10m?

Yes.

ETA: Remember, tax savings are calculated from the `top down', so amnestying Pau saves money at the top tax rates first, which is why Pau's savings is large. The insurance makes it close to the same to carry either one.



This post was edited on 5/5 at 1:01 pm


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corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
5269 posts

re: Very good article about selling CP3 to comeback to New Orleans


quote:

Amnestying Metta saves money only really. Amnestying Pau allows them to save money money and sign Dwight without adding an enormous tax expense (remember, it's progressive, so any player you amnesty saves money at the highest marginal rate which is determined after you complete your roster). This may be superior to trading him to get a short term asset back if what you want it to save money.


I guess the question is what do they want out of this next season? Hold the line this coming season until Kobe comes back and hope for a playoff run or dump payroll and aim for a rebuild around Dwight with crazy cap space for 2014/15?

I think saving tax money probably makes the most sense for them, but I don't know how they can amnesty Pau and pretend like they aren't tanking. And dealing him for assets probably only screws up next year's cap space bonanza.

Do they dare amnesty him and shelve Dwight for more lottery balls next summer?






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JabarkusRussell
Member since Jul 2009
9628 posts

re: Very good article about selling CP3 to comeback to New Orleans


AD23 still has a few years before he's even at the level of Blake. CP3 isn't a young man. He doesn't have time to wait for this team to develop. He is one of the only super stars in the league to not get out of the 2nd round. He is tired of waiting.





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JohnnyKilroy
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Oct 2012
8343 posts
 Online 

re: Very good article about selling CP3 to comeback to New Orleans


quote:

AD23 still has a few years before he's even at the level of Blake. CP3 isn't a young man. He doesn't have time to wait for this team to develop. He is one of the only super stars in the league to not get out of the 2nd round. He is tired of waiting.



Pretty Sure Mello has never been past the second round.

Hell I think this year is the 2nd time in his career that he has made it past the first round.







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42
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Apr 2012
3574 posts

re: Very good article about selling CP3 to comeback to New Orleans


quote:

I guess the question is what do they want out of this next season? Hold the line this coming season until Kobe comes back and hope for a playoff run or dump payroll and aim for a rebuild around Dwight with crazy cap space for 2014/15?

I think saving tax money probably makes the most sense for them, but I don't know how they can amnesty Pau and pretend like they aren't tanking. And dealing him for assets probably only screws up next year's cap space bonanza.

Do they dare amnesty him and shelve Dwight for more lottery balls next summer?


They have to rebuild. Everything is new.

Their TV deal and ticket base are locked in, so they can take the hit. People will forget if they can build a winner and lock up some stars.

Who knows . . . maybe this was the plan anyway, and maybe that's why Pau was sort of beat up MD. We'll see.

It's all very fascinating.

ETA: Also, franchises that win titles don't get their own top picks; they take other people's. Also, there is a school of thought that Miami will try to get LeBron as a free agent. Each of the top 3 Heat players have an option for the two seasons after this coming one. It looks like he'd take a little bit of a per-year pay cut by doing so, but he'd be a Laker and the Heat's salary situation is pretty dicey if the 3 of them all stay there.



This post was edited on 5/5 at 7:41 pm


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JabarkusRussell
Member since Jul 2009
9628 posts

re: Very good article about selling CP3 to comeback to New Orleans


And do you see how much crap he gets for it? LINK


This post was edited on 5/5 at 7:39 pm


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brmark70816
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, La
Member since Feb 2011
1851 posts

re: Very good article about selling CP3 to comeback to New Orleans


quote:

They have to rebuild. Everything is new


I listened to a podcast with B.Simmons where they talked about the Lakers situation. From what they said, the Lakers can reset pretty easy. They cannot Amnesty Kobe. He is way too valuable to the team and it would be a killer if he can come back for another team. Some points Simmons said (take them for what they are worth).

1. They could trade Nash to Toronto anytime they want. Toronto would eat that contract in a second. The Lakers just have to find the right pieces to take back in exchange (Ross? Jonas?). But they could drop some payroll there.

2. Amnesty MWP. It's all about saving money and gaining some space. But they said that would be about 20 million is savings (salary + penalties).

3. S&T Howard. They all said he wasn't a fit and would leave anyway. Houston was the main partner they brought up (teaming Howard with Harden). The package coming back (Asik and Parsons) wasn't the greatest, but they'd get some value. If the Hawks package was offered (Horford and Jenkins). I'm sure they'd jump on that.

4. Keep Pau. He's Kobe's buddy and will keep the team relevant while Kobe gets healthy. If Kobe can come back in Feb and the team is somewhat close to playoff contention. It'll all be a success.

Lets say they amnesty MWP, do the Howard and Nash deals. Resign Clark and Meeks and pick-up Korver and Nate Robinson on exceptions. The line-up would look like..

Blake/Robinson/Duhon
Meeks/Ross
Parsons/Korver
Gasol/Hill/Clark
Asik/Jonas

Is that a playoff team? Can they tread water until Kobe gets back? It's a decent team and not that big of a tax penalty..






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42
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Apr 2012
3574 posts

re: Very good article about selling CP3 to comeback to New Orleans


Keeping Pau and shipping out the others works but has its own problems, but there's no escaping some of the issues.

This idea that they can't amnesty Kobe is about as realistic as not being able to trade Peyton Manning. It may be really tough to do it, but you can in the right situation.

None of these options are pleasant, including undoing everything they shipped out tons of assets for last summer.






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