78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens - Page 10 - TigerDroppings.com

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SlowFlowPro
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re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

My premise is an innocent American is very, very, very unlikely be targeted

that doesn't refute my point

quote:

. Innocent people die in every war j

a. this isn't a war

b. how many innocent americans (who are civilians and citizens of america) were intentionally killed by the american government?

quote:

We have a process

a secret process not subject to public review

quote:

and prevented another major operation on our soil.

possibly






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RogerTheShrubber
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re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

My premise is an innocent American is very, very, very unlikely be targeted. Innocent people die in every war just like they've died in prisons and execution chambers in this country


Doesn't sound very promising.






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Navytiger74
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re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

I guess you will just take their word that they are a terrorist.


So we're randomly targeting Americans of middle-eastern descent overseas for...what? I'd love to hear this.






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RogerTheShrubber
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re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:


So we're randomly targeting Americans of middle-eastern descent overseas for...what? I'd love to hear this.



Do you think every bit of information the govt receives in this quasi "war" is correct? I certainly don't have numbers, but I am gonna guess a lot of innocent people have died in these drawn out series of actions. There have been videos of innocent people blasted by the eye in the sky (helicopter gunships.)



This post was edited on 2/8 at 1:12 pm


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Zed
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re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

if they bankrupt the US, they win
Smaller scale operations selectively targeting terrorists can be done without spending nearly as much money as an occupation requires. This requires some level of cooperation with the local government, which we have in Yemen and Mali, less so in Pakistan. Ideally drone warfare would be avoided, and other methods with less civilian casualties would be used. I do think terrorism can be fought effectively, though not defeated, with a much smaller footprint.






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SlowFlowPro
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re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

I do think terrorism can be fought effectively, though not defeated, with a much smaller footprint.

by assassinating people

no shit, why don't we just assassinate kim jong un? or putin (if he pisses us off)?

we violate our principles and we assassinate people on the backs of shaky intel...we won't win that way, either

it's perpetual "war"

do you think that's beneficial?



This post was edited on 2/8 at 1:17 pm


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Navytiger74
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re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

that doesn't refute my point


You implied that my argument rested upon the premise that no innocents would be hurt and that the government was infallible. It doesn't. I support the policy in spite of the inherent risks because I know them, in this narrow case, to be pretty minimal.

quote:

this isn't a war


If there's some cute phrase you want to apply to our struggle against violent extremism (CENTCOM's term, not mine), I'm happy to entertain it. I agree that it's not a conventional conflict.

quote:

b. how many innocent americans (who are civilians and citizens of america) were intentionally killed by the american government?


Over the course of 237 years, who knows. More importantly, nothing in this policy justifies the intentional killing of "innocent" Americans.

quote:

a secret process not subject to public review


Sktetches of the evaluation process will likely come out. Sources and methods of collection of information won't (at least won't be acknowledged)






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SlowFlowPro
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re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

. It doesn't. I support the policy in spite of the inherent risks because I know them, in this narrow case, to be pretty minimal.

so you basically support intentionally killing innocent american citizens and just doubt that it will happen

quote:

I agree that it's not a conventional conflict.

wars involve conflicts against states

we're in a conflict with a loose association of people in various states across the globe. you can win wars. we can't win this.

quote:

More importantly, nothing in this policy justifies the intentional killing of "innocent" Americans.

you have no safeguards to protect innocent americans. none

and you're 100% ok with it







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TK421
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re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

More importantly, nothing in this policy justifies the intentional killing of "innocent" Americans.


If you abandon the well accepted legal principle that we are innocent until proven guilty.

Just admit you don't care about liberties and be done with it.






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Zed
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re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

by assassinating people
I would prefer special forces raids where an opportunity for surrender and apprehension would be afforded the terrorists. Drones aren't my thing.
quote:

it's perpetual "war"

do you think that's beneficial?
I wouldn't really consider small scale anti-terrorism operations to be war.






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RogerTheShrubber
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re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

I do think terrorism can be fought effectively, though not defeated, with a much smaller footprint.


Drone strikes would escalate terrorist activity IMO. The harder we push, the more they push back

Lesson learned from Vietnam was or should have been learned was that "they" view victory in much different terms than we do. We will give in long before they when bodies stack up and money flows too freely.







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Navytiger74
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re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

Do you think every bit of information the govt receives in this quasi "war" is correct?


Of course not. But you don't become a named objective based upon a "bit of information". These targets require the most thorough vetting and validation that you can imagine, and must be specifically approved by the president. This isn't done lightly.

quote:

I am gonna guess a lot of innocent people have died in these drawn out series of actions.


Too many innocent deaths have been collateral to this conflict. No way around that. They aren't being targeted, though.







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AUin02
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re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

We bust our asses to limit and minimize collateral damage. There's never an excuse for it. It just happens.





It just happens? It happens because we're shooting anti tank missiles at people. They killed a 16 year old boy, an American citizen, 2 weeks after killing his father. It just happened because they shot an anti tank missile at him and a group of teenagers (some his cousins) whom he was staying with. And Gibbs' response is that "he should have had a better father"?

No one should have this sort of unchecked, rampant authority to kill, especially when the justification is he "should have had a better father". Cause that sure as hell doesn't sound like it fits the qualifications of the memo concerning evidence and the imminence of planning an attack. In fact it sounds a hell of a lot more like he was declared guilty by birth, convicted by "being in the wrong place at the wrong time" and executed by an anti tank missile. Yeah, that sure sounds like due process for a legal minor all right.

But that's ok, it just happens.

edit: And for clarifications sake I'm talking about the killing of Anwar al-Awlaki's son 2 weeks after Awlaki was already droned and dead.



This post was edited on 2/8 at 1:26 pm


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CajunAngele
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re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


NM


This post was edited on 2/8 at 2:06 pm


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Navytiger74
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re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

so you basically support intentionally killing innocent american citizens and just doubt that it will happen


Of course not. I support a policy of targeting AQ operational leaders under the understanding that an innocent person is very unlikely to find himself mistakenly targeted.

quote:

wars involve conflicts against states we're in a conflict with a loose association of people in various states across the globe. you can win wars. we can't win this.


That's a broader critique that I can sign on to. Eradicating Islamic extremism is impossible. And it certainly won't be accomplished by the use of military force. As long as that's the policy, though, I consider this a reasonable part of it.






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Zed
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re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

Drone strikes would escalate terrorist activity IMO.
I definitely think the drones are overused and would prefer other methods that don't terrorize the civilian population. Raids can work if you have cooperation with the local government.

Absent that cooperation, the drones should only be used against very high value targets with appropriate consideration for civilians. I doubt our military is nearly so restrictive in their use.






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UncleFestersLegs
Columbia MO
Member since Nov 2010
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re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

Where are you stationed exactly that your C.O. does not mind you on tigerdroppings so much on a DOD computer? Most AD do not have the time to play like they are not liberal on a political forum.

That's no ones business. I support the free exchange of ideas no matter how misguided I think they may be. Attempting to "out" someone chills that free exchange.

Debate the posts if you like but leave the poster alone.

My 0.02.



This post was edited on 2/8 at 1:35 pm


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Navytiger74
LSU Fan
Washington
Member since Oct 2009
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re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

As I've said before. You made me a virgin, you are my first. I have yet to meet any AD military friends and family, officer or enlisted that shares your political views. You have claimed you are not a liberal but you damned sure talk like one, son. Where are you stationed exactly that your C.O. does not mind you on tigerdroppings so much on a DOD computer? Most AD do not have the time to play like they are not liberal on a political forum.


For the past month, I've been my command's Naval LNO to a command that's finding its footing. Let's just say we're restricted to a one-horse base in the desert and, when not working, can choose between the gym, our racks, or internet time in TV lounge. Maybe some of your military relatives never clued you in to the fact that a lot of deployments are 90% sheer boredom.

And this is my own personal computer. We're allowed to have those.






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GoCrazyAuburn
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Member since Feb 2010
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re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

nothing in this policy justifies the intentional killing of "innocent" Americans.




Uh, by all accounts the father and son were innocent unless you have a link to where they were proven guilty in court.

So, actually, this policy absolutely justifies killing innocent people.






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CajunAngele
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2012
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re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


NM carry on whatever.


This post was edited on 2/8 at 1:42 pm


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