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USMCTiger03 
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
58388 posts
| re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt? (Posted on 1/28/13 at 9:13 am to Rittdog)
I really liked it, but had a lot of dropped lines and meh moments. I can't even exactly describe how-so. But I thought some of the scenes with Pitt were incredible. The beach landing battle scene was awesome.
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shinerfan
LSU Fan
Duckworld(Earth-616)
Member since Sep 2009
4748 posts
| re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt? (Posted on 1/28/13 at 9:14 am to harmonics)
quote:
I never watched Troy because it was released during a time when there were entirely too many war movies of the same kind being released. It was nauseating. Already had Gladiator, then there was the LOTR triology, then Troy, King Arthur, Kingdom of Heaven....... Mother of god.
One of the cable networks had also just done a Helen of Troy movie.
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prplhze2000
LSU Fan
Parts Unknown
Member since Jan 2007
29250 posts
| re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt? (Posted on 1/28/13 at 10:03 am to AmosMosesAndTwins)
Yeah,
Hector wasn't exactly some metro who hated war but thirsted for a fight with Achilles.
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SpqrTiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2004
5188 posts
| re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt? (Posted on 1/28/13 at 10:34 am to prplhze2000)
quote:
There's nothing wrong with Pitt that I can put into words, except he just didn't have "it" for Achilles
Are you kidding? Pitt was perfect for the role.
There's a couple of things that need to be understood about Achilles before evaluating who should play him. First, he's a total a-hole. I mean grade A, first-class a-hole. The only thing heroic about him is his fighting ability. He looks better, fights better and his lines in the Iliad are delivered just as over-the-top as in the movie: "There are no bargains between lions and men," for example.
You don't find a blue-collar, gritty type of individual to play him like Russell Crowe. You get the guy all the girls love who doesn't give a shite. Brad Pitt. A superstar to play a superstar. I thought he was spot-on for Achilles.
"Troy" isn't a bad movie. But it's not great. Why?
In my opinion, it tries to do too much. The beauty of the Iliad is that the story is very simple. It is the story of anger, and the cost of it. The Iliad ends with the death of Hector, and that's where this movie should have ended, too. Don't work in the Trojan horse and all that.
Instead, pump up Hector. Pump up Achilles' relationship with Patroclus. Make the audience know what a good guy Hector really was, and make them feel like shite when a prick like Achilles ends his noble life. Don't make Achilles the sympathetic figure here. He's not the sympathy character in the book. He's an angry, prideful killing machine.
Hector is the heart and soul of the Iliad.
Read the Iliad when you are 18 and you will discover the wonder of Achilles. Read the Iliad when you are 35 and you will know the tragedy of Hector. Women shouldn't be weeping when Achilles dies at the end, like the movie attempts to do. Everyone should be disappointed that Hector, as excellent as he is... loving father and husband, loyal brother, devoted son, humble before the gods, excellent in battle, revered among his people... is slaughtered by an unfeeling, immature butcher of men. And here's the kicker - Hector, as awesome a fighter as he is... knows he stands no chance. He does his duty anyway.
S-U-C-K-S.
Now that's a story. But it's not scripted the way it should be in the movie.
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corndeaux
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2009
2998 posts
| re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt? (Posted on 1/28/13 at 10:56 am to SpqrTiger)
quote:
In my opinion, it tries to do too much.
yep. they got overwhelmed with all the back story. most people know the basics, why waste so much time on them? focus on the amazing character development. plus killing menelaus was fricking dumb.
quote:
He's not the sympathy character in the book
dont know about that. hes a prick, but book 9 is a sympathetic look at him and his redemption/coming to terms with his fate in 24 is perfect. achilles grows more than any othet character and he becomes more than an immature brutr
quote:
Everyone should be disappointed that Hector, as excellent as he is... loving father and husband, loyal brother, devoted son, humble before the gods, excellent in battle, revered among his people... is slaughtered by an unfeeling, immature butcher of men. And here's the kicker - Hector, as awesome a fighter as he is... knows he stands no chance. He does his duty anyway.
going by the book, hector is not so sympathetoc nor is he such an awesome fighter.
he refuses to force his brother to return another mans wife at the expense of his city.
he tells his wife he would rather die than live with her to see their son grow up.
every fight he had, he loses. if he wins, a god has helped him. he runs away from.achilles thrice before he turns to fight- again only because athena tricked him.
hector is noble and is dutiful, but he allows those traits to ultimately doom his city.
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beaverfever 
Arkansas Fan
Little Rock
Member since Jan 2008
4891 posts
| re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt? (Posted on 1/28/13 at 10:59 am to SpqrTiger)
Pitt was fine. He did kind of overact a bit but everyone in the movie did. It was supposed to be more epic and "big" in that manner. You're not going to pull off real, modern drama when your source material is the Iliad. That's just stupid.
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LoveThatMoney
LSU Fan
Who knows where?
Member since Jan 2008
3051 posts
| re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt? (Posted on 1/28/13 at 11:15 am to Rittdog)
Troy was enjoyable but most of the stars, with the exception of Bana, phoned in their roles. The source material was decimated. Everything seemed stilted.
Gladiator was gritty and real, despite the unlikely nature of it. It had a heart, which Troy failed to have because it relied on the love of Paris to Helen, and as was said before, Orlando Bloom sucked as Paris. Moreover, the film didn't focus much on the Paris-Helen love, instead trying to fit in Hector's love for his wife and his city, Achilles' love for his cousin and, randomly, the seer (whose name escapes me for some reason), Menelaus' jealousy, and Agamemnon's greed.
That said, Troy still worked for the most part. It just wasn't nearly as tight as Gladiator, which also benefited from Scott's style behind the camera. It's odd because Wolfgang Peterson is a hell of a director (Das Boot) and David Benioff is a hell of a writer (25th Hour), but nothing really came completely together with Troy.
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RollTide1987 
Alabama Fan
Senoia, Georgia
Member since Nov 2009
17691 posts
| re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt? (Posted on 1/28/13 at 11:22 am to LoveThatMoney)
quote:
t's odd because Wolfgang Peterson is a hell of a director
I find Peterson to be on and off. While he has made some great movies (Das Boot, Air Force One) he has also made quite a few stinkers. Troy was good but not great.
This post was edited on 1/28 at 11:23 am
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manwich 
UCF Fan
You've wanted my
Member since Oct 2008
51090 posts
| re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt? (Posted on 1/28/13 at 11:30 am to SpqrTiger)
quote:
The Iliad ends with the death of Hector, and that's where this movie should have ended, too. Don't work in the Trojan horse and all that.
you'd make a movie about the Trojan War and leave out the Trojan Horse?
Hollywood is much too Hollywood for that.
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SpqrTiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2004
5188 posts
| re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt? (Posted on 1/28/13 at 12:49 pm to manwich)
I sure would do that, Manwich. And I guarantee it would have been better than "Troy."
Characters make the story. Not props.
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manwich
UCF Fan
You've wanted my
Member since Oct 2008
51090 posts
| re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt? (Posted on 1/28/13 at 12:54 pm to SpqrTiger)
but it's the main icon of the story
you can't make Lord of the Rings without a ring
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DrunkPachyderm
Alabama Fan
Member since Apr 2009
557 posts
| re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt? (Posted on 1/28/13 at 12:57 pm to SpqrTiger)
So who exactly were we supposed to be "pulling for" in Troy. Pitt or Bana?
I think that is where it ran in to problems with me. I liked both sides of the war so didn't feel as invested in who wins. So like people said, it was entertaining but not as powerful as Gladiator.
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lsu13lsu
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2008
1134 posts
| re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt? (Posted on 1/28/13 at 1:00 pm to Outlaw)
quote:
I loved Troy.
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shinerfan
LSU Fan
Duckworld(Earth-616)
Member since Sep 2009
4748 posts
| re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt? (Posted on 1/28/13 at 1:01 pm to LoveThatMoney)
quote:
the seer (whose name escapes me for some reason)
Cassandra
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CocomoLSU 
Penn State Fan
Inside your dome.
Member since Feb 2004
117468 posts
| re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt? (Posted on 1/28/13 at 1:04 pm to lsu13lsu)
I like Troy a lot, but can see why some wouldn't. It's overly cheesy in a lot of places, especially Pitt's dialogue (and I liked him as Achilles just fine). But like someone else said, I kinda feel like it's supposed to be over the top and cheesy...whereas Gladiator is more "realistic" (if you will).
Both are very good movies IMO. While Gladiator is much better, Troy gets too much hate IMO.
ETA: And I forgot Kruger gets naked in Troy...it's been so long since I've seen it somewhere other than TV.
This post was edited on 1/28 at 1:05 pm
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LoveThatMoney
LSU Fan
Who knows where?
Member since Jan 2008
3051 posts
| re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt? (Posted on 1/28/13 at 1:09 pm to shinerfan)
quote:
Cassandra
THANK YOU! Was driving me nuts.
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Akit1
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Jul 2006
3298 posts
| re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt? (Posted on 1/28/13 at 1:55 pm to Fenwick86)
I think sometimes the simplest plot is the best. Early on in Gladiator you knew Maximus would get revenge and kill Commodus. Even so, it still kept you engaged throughout.
I really like Troy, but it's no Gladiator because of the revenge factor. People like seeing the good guy overcome all odds. JMO.
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crimsonblazer
UAB Fan
Member since Jul 2011
596 posts
| re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt? (Posted on 1/28/13 at 1:57 pm to CottonWasKing)
I've always enjoyed Troy
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goatmilker 
New Orleans Saints Fan
Proudville USA
Member since Feb 2009
9336 posts
| re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt? (Posted on 1/28/13 at 3:02 pm to Rittdog)
Very good movie I thought just wasn't directed by Ridley Scott.
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RollTide1987
Alabama Fan
Senoia, Georgia
Member since Nov 2009
17691 posts
| re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt? (Posted on 1/28/13 at 4:14 pm to USMCTiger03)
Did anyone else have the same reaction I did when Sean Bean is introduced as Odysseus? When Brad Pitt said who he is I was like, "Yes! Sean Bean is playing a character that won't die!"
This post was edited on 1/28 at 4:15 pm
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