re: Why did "Gladiator" work and "Troy" didnt?

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Hector is fricking awesome IMO

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i do not get the hector love at all.

just sticking to the movie: he never once stands up for the right thing- he doesn't turn the ships around in sparta once he learns helen is on board, he kills menelaus in cold blood during a duel to the death with paris, he allows his old father and the dumb priests to soften their defenses- and then he fights achilles one on one willingly for no good reason when trojan archers could have killed him as he is screaming HEKTOR 15 feet in front of the city gates.

he not only lacks the courage of his convictions, he also is dumb.

biggest flaw in the movie is that they tried to make both hector and achilles the hero. should have stuck with the anti war theme of the iliad and had no winners. an ancient saving private ryan

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I don't understand that at all. He is the only one with any honor.

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Which ultimately gets him killed and his city wiped off the face of the earth. what a hero!

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Knows his brother will be killed, and the new peace will be gone regardless.

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he doesn't know peace will be gone. besides he chooses his brother over the entire city of troy

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Defending his brother, and knows the Greek King will go to war no matter what. Kinda obvious.

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he is honorable by murdering the man whose wife his brother stole during a duel to the death? ags may still try to fight, but if menelaus is given his retribution, how much motivation will 50,000 troops have now that there is no cause for war?

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Honors his father, the King. You can't piss off the King, even if you are his son.

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Even if it means the death and destruction of his city? Why doesn't he honor his wife and child or any of the other citizens in Troy?

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Because he has HONOR. He realized he killed his cousin, he MUST respond to Achilles challenge. What do you think the Trojans would have thought of him if he hadn't?

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So he killed a man who was trying to kill him in battle and he must fight the greatest warrior in the world one on one because honor dictates it? Sounds dumb to me. I think the Trojans would have much rather had him live- hector alone saves troy.

eta- i like it too. have watched so many times and i love the fighting choreography- particularly the achilles/hector duel. i just wish they had made a more cohesive movie

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all of that last post was a long windeed way of saying- i think the character of hector is homer's rebuttal of this notion of honor. hector does what he is supposed to do, even when logic and common sense would dictate other wise.

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Good, cause I don't want to piece by piece it like last time.

First off, Hector does have Honor. He initially turns the boat around, but thinks things through. Agree?

2nd, he does try to get his father to send her back, commenting on how bad this is for Troy. He isn't the King. Not his descision.

3RD, you aren't grasping the point of going to fight achillies. He has to do it. The entire populace of Troy thinks he is the greatest warrior in the world. He CANT not accept.

The fact he knows he can't win but still fights is heroic.

And dammit, if he doesn't trip on the rock, he wins that fight IMO.

I won't rehash the first two points- we'll just agree to disagree. i'm just happy to talk about this movie

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3RD, you aren't grasping the point of going to fight achillies. He has to do it. The entire populace of Troy thinks he is the greatest warrior in the world. He CANT not accept.

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i think my problem with the duel is how the movie sets it up. as much as i love the fight, brad pitt driving his chariot to troy and screaming HEKTOR until he comes out is so absurd. they could have done something like the book- where hector stands his ground so other people can get back to safety- and i wouldn't have a problem.

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if he doesn't trip on the rock, he wins that fight

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not so sure. achilles was beating him like a pinata, though hector did much better than the big dude at the beginning of the movie.

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I won't rehash the first two points- we'll just agree to disagree. i'm just happy to talk about this movie

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I hear you and agree about discussing the movie. I still stand by the fact he turned the boat around at first, and implored the King to send her back. The fact he didn't want to see his brother killed is just a natural act IMO.

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i think my problem with the duel is how the movie sets it up. as much as i love the fight, brad pitt driving his chariot to troy and screaming HEKTOR until he comes out is so absurd.

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OK, but the premise of what I said still stands. He has to go fight, or they lose the war IMO. If he doesn't come out at the challenge, no one would respect him except Paris.

Even though he was killed, they still had the war won until the Trojan Horse.

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achilles was beating him like a pinata,

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bullshite. Hector actually hurt him, which no one was ever shown to do in the movie. Hector had him on the ropes IMO.

And it pisses me off Paris killed Achillies.

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If he doesn't come out at the challenge, no one would respect him except Paris

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if he is only fighting achilles bc the people wont respect, even though he knows he will die and he knows he is the city's best hope, isn't he just being selfish? he would be fighting to uphold his reputation and not to protect his family and city*

this is where the movie missteps. they try to make him a saint, when in the text he is blood thirsty, man slaughtering, and glory seeking like all the other heroes. he fights to defend his country and there is great honor in that. but he is just as flawed as all the other characters.

*admittedly I might be projecting some of who he is in the book onto the movie character

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if he is only fighting achilles bc the people wont respect, even though he knows he will die and he knows he is the city's best hope, isn't he just being selfish? he would be fighting to uphold his reputation and not to protect his family and city*

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He knows the people of Troy need to believe in 'Hector'. It's like if Drew Brees said he didn't want to play against the 49ers because he knew we would lose.

What would who dat nation do?

And how can he be selfish when he knows he probably is going to die?

WHY DO YOU HATE HECTOR?

Everyone pretty much knew Achilles was almost invincible including Hector. So yes Hector knew he'd lose. Total balls to go fight him anyway.

lulz at the poster who thinks the character of Hector is a pussy.

The back and forth about these characters is what makes this simple plot such a brilliant story. The movie captured some of that but like with any movie based on a book--esp two epic ancient poems--much will be abridged.

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Hector stood no chance at all, which he knew prior to going out there. It's the whole point

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Of course that's the point. That is why Hector is the man for knowingly fighting him. And he still hurt him in the fight.