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re: New Statistic: The Point Guard Rating
Posted on 1/24/13 at 2:47 pm to SouthOfSouth
Posted on 1/24/13 at 2:47 pm to SouthOfSouth
I'm not the first person to dole out compliments, and I hate hyperbole (people today the waaaay too many aspects of everday life are "awesome" or "amazing"). That being said, I think Hickey is best pure PG LSU has had in at least 15 years (probably more). LSU has had some decent players runnning the point over the last several years (G. Temple, D. Mitchell, T. Bright), but I don't know if any of those guys had the overall skill-set and ability that Hickey brings to the table (Bright might be the closest). He can create his own shot regularly. Hit from deep and get to the bucket. His defense, well the numbers speak for themselves. And finally, he is one of the fastest guys I've ever seen in an LSU uniform.
2
Posted on 1/24/13 at 2:50 pm to baytiger
quote:
maybe three components: assists/possession + ((steals/turnovers)-1) + ((pts/fgatt)-1.22)
that gives you an offensive distributor component, a defensive component, and an offensive scoring component
assist to turnover ratio is important but it just gets muddled when you stick steals in there.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 2:52 pm to Alt26
quote:
I think Hickey is best pure PG LSU has had in at least 15 years (probably more)
His skill set is really amazing. If he keeps on working the sky is the limit. Only wish he was a couple inches taller.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 2:53 pm to pellietigersaint
quote:
and people wonder why there are rarely any insightful posters. Whenever a poster brings something constructive to the table, they get blasted by assholes like this.
If you dont like the post, move along pussy
Posted on 1/24/13 at 2:53 pm to Alt26
i think i'd give torris the nod over hickey.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 2:58 pm to bbap
Torris was a stud. Could really shoot hte deep ball and averaged 4.3 assists per game his senior year. Really solid PG for the P&G
Posted on 1/24/13 at 3:00 pm to SouthOfSouth
quote:
SouthOfSouth
assists can a be an unreliable stat, if a player is great at setting up teammates who are poor shooters then his rating is less than one who is worse at this skill but surrounded by more talented players.
also, there already is a Pure Point Rating used in advanced metrics.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 3:00 pm to SouthOfSouth
quote:
Torris was a stud. Could really shoot hte deep ball and averaged 4.3 assists per game his senior year. Really solid PG for the P&G
agreed but he was one ugly mo fo
Posted on 1/24/13 at 3:01 pm to FamousAmos
quote:
Love it. The basketball answer to the QB Rating
you mean this
quote:
PPR: Pure Point Rating = 100 * (Lg Poss per 48 min / Tm Poss per 48 min) * (((AST * 2/3) - TOV) / MP). Developed by John Hollinger, PPR is a better "ballhandling" metric than regular assist-to-turnover ratio because it properly weights assists & turnovers relative to each other, and it presents the two in a per-minute form.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 3:03 pm to SouthOfSouth
Based on the eye test, I think Pressey and Johnson should be higher. But I really like Summers as a point guard. He does so many good things. I love Hickey's game, too. Same with Wilbekin.
Wallace, to me, should be much lower. Harrow too. And Caruso isn't A&M's PG.
Wallace, to me, should be much lower. Harrow too. And Caruso isn't A&M's PG.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 3:04 pm to Stewie Griffin
Also, great post.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 3:12 pm to RonBurgundy
quote:
assists can a be an unreliable stat, if a player is great at setting up teammates who are poor shooters then his rating is less than one who is worse at this skill but surrounded by more talented players.
also, there already is a Pure Point Rating used in advanced metrics.
Obviously having great shooters helps a PG with statistics. I said it yesterday, if LSU makes shots Johnny O'Bryant has 5 or so assists from passing out of double teams.
I just wanted to present the stats of SEC point guards and took a few minutes to kida put them all together.
PPR in advanced metrics is also a very good metric to use. I didn't even look at them or compare this methodology. I just thought this would give us something to talk about with basketball.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 3:13 pm to Stewie Griffin
quote:
And Caruso isn't A&M's PG.
Yea. I know Turner is technically their PG, but I thought Caruso's statistics were more PG-esque than Turners. It was a toss up for me.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 3:14 pm to SouthOfSouth
arkansas fans say bj young isnt their pg and south carolina fans say ellington is their pg.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 3:16 pm to bbap
quote:
arkansas fans say bj young isnt their pg and south carolina fans say ellington is their pg.
Yea I just saw that...
I just looked at ast rates and ast per game to try and figure it out. People don't put PG on rosters so its hard to figure it out without more research than I was willing to do this afternoon.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 3:19 pm to SouthOfSouth
10-4. i knew ellington was the sc pg, i have no clue who arkansas's pg is.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 3:20 pm to bbap
quote:
10-4. i knew ellington was the sc pg, i have no clue who arkansas's pg is.
Yea I knew Ellington was also, but in my haste I missed it.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 4:54 pm to GhostBuster6
Hi SongofSouth, I like your work. I run an advanced college basketball stat website at www.cbbsheets.com and while I don't have position specific "rating stats" like your point guard score yet, but I do have Wins Above Replacement which is I guess what you would call a "one size fits all" stat for every player to determine value.
I think your formula for point guard rating is a good one, but I would tweak it a little bit.
I would calculate the expected values of assists, steals, turnovers, made field goals, missed field goals, and drawn fouls. I do think drawing fouls is important in a point guard, who can get to the line.
Right now, the expected offensive values I use are:
ASSIST: Assists * 2.3
STEALS: Steals * 1.48
MADE FIELD GOALS: Points * 1
MISSED FIELD GOALS: Missed FGA * -.397
TURNOVERS: Turnovers * -.9931
DRAWN FOULS: Fouls Drawn * 1
After calculating that, then add the expected value of a possession(right now its .9931 points) and multiply that on offensive possessions he is not involved in(Calculated by: Offensive Possessions - FGA/AST/TO/DRAWN FOULS).
Then divide it by the number of offensive possessions he has played in.
With that you have a tempo free "score" that shows how many points per possession he is worth when it comes to point guard related stats.
I think your formula for point guard rating is a good one, but I would tweak it a little bit.
I would calculate the expected values of assists, steals, turnovers, made field goals, missed field goals, and drawn fouls. I do think drawing fouls is important in a point guard, who can get to the line.
Right now, the expected offensive values I use are:
ASSIST: Assists * 2.3
STEALS: Steals * 1.48
MADE FIELD GOALS: Points * 1
MISSED FIELD GOALS: Missed FGA * -.397
TURNOVERS: Turnovers * -.9931
DRAWN FOULS: Fouls Drawn * 1
After calculating that, then add the expected value of a possession(right now its .9931 points) and multiply that on offensive possessions he is not involved in(Calculated by: Offensive Possessions - FGA/AST/TO/DRAWN FOULS).
Then divide it by the number of offensive possessions he has played in.
With that you have a tempo free "score" that shows how many points per possession he is worth when it comes to point guard related stats.
Posted on 1/24/13 at 10:09 pm to accnodefense
How about Hickey being the best defensive PG in the league and maybe beyond?
Also, I saw Pressey double teamed by Florida last week, into complete ineffectiveness. Florida didn't do that to Anthony. Does that mean anything?
Also, I saw Pressey double teamed by Florida last week, into complete ineffectiveness. Florida didn't do that to Anthony. Does that mean anything?
Posted on 1/24/13 at 10:24 pm to bbap
quote:
i think i'd give torris the nod over hickey.
Surely you jest. I think Bright was very good, but he's no Hickey. Favorite game all time was watching LSU versus Oklahoma State when Gotlieb was there in New Orleans for the Sugar Bowl Classic. The beer was flowing and we had an amazing game. Bright sagged off of Gotlieb a good 5 feet and the whole crowd was taunting him to make a shot and he couldn't. One of my best Tiger BBall memories, but Hickey's still better
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