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Why is the stock market moving up?

Posted on 10/15/12 at 3:01 pm
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
126977 posts
Posted on 10/15/12 at 3:01 pm
Serious question: What am I missing?

Earnings forecasts are down, the economy is bumping along the bottom (no politics, please), Europe is still a mess, the fiscal cliff for the U.S. is just months away and even China, Brazil and India are forecasting slowdowns in their economies.

Would someone please educate me?

Thanks in advance.
Posted by ItNeverRains
37069
Member since Oct 2007
25644 posts
Posted on 10/15/12 at 3:08 pm to
I expect retail sales for holidays this year to be way up despite overall economic picture. Just a guess
Posted by ZereauxSum
Lot 23E
Member since Nov 2008
10176 posts
Posted on 10/15/12 at 3:09 pm to
I've been wondering this myself for the past couple months.

Could this be short term investors seeing the writing on the wall and trying to get in and out fast? Maybe a small bubble?
Posted by TheDirty1
Member since May 2011
363 posts
Posted on 10/15/12 at 3:10 pm to
I've been questioning this for months. I know everything was gaining on expectations of QE3 but damn. We are around the highs prior to the crash which is absurd to me. I personally think we are in for a rude awakening in the future. Just speculation though no facts.

Edit: The powers that be have pretty much played the game perfect though. How long did the Fed continually say that another round of QE was a real option? 8-12 months? Every meeting they had for almost a year would mirror the meeting before it. They would say the economy is improving but quick enough. If this trend continues we are prepared to introduce another round of QE. That gave investors confidence. Throw in some questionable unemployment numbers and the retail investors that only read the headlines of the newspapers think that everything is back to normal...

I have a question though. Could issues overseas be a factor in this? Meaning many overseas markets are in limbo and investors are looking to reduce risk. Could our initial surge of 10-15% be an event people are labeling as a recovery and we have new foreign money investing in US equities to hide from the uncertainty overseas? If so when other markets begin to recover we could again have a massive correction. This is purely what if and just something to think about.
This post was edited on 10/15/12 at 3:34 pm
Posted by OnTheBrink
TN
Member since Mar 2012
5418 posts
Posted on 10/15/12 at 3:22 pm to
quote:

LSURussian


Youself, Flask, foshizzle and a couple of others should be answering this question.

I have been curious as to the answer as well.
This post was edited on 10/15/12 at 3:24 pm
Posted by Crbello4Hiceman
Lurking
Member since May 2011
502 posts
Posted on 10/15/12 at 3:24 pm to
Here are my thoughts. Disclaimer: keep in mind I know investing about as well as a typical welder knows LSU football.

A lot of analysts are saying that fear, uncertainty, and the re-election of the current administration/congress are already factored into current prices.

Besides this, I think alot of companies have lower revenue but also have lower costs due to trimming back on expenses that typically come with a growth strategy.

With the fact that the Fed has pledged to keep rates 0% till 2015, alot of investors are betting that they can beat the borrowing rate.

Lastly, it is possible that a lot of investors feel that the fiscal cliff will eventually be solved, even at the 11th hr, and that the market won't get quite as spooked by delays and tug-of-war that will occur.

Edited for punctuation/spelling
This post was edited on 10/15/12 at 3:31 pm
Posted by TigerAlum1982
Member since Sep 2011
1442 posts
Posted on 10/15/12 at 3:58 pm to
Saw this on Market Watch. Interesting.

LINK
Posted by GoCrazyAuburn
Member since Feb 2010
34954 posts
Posted on 10/15/12 at 4:24 pm to
It's a strange, strange time we live in, that is for sure.
Posted by Zach
Gizmonic Institute
Member since May 2005
112656 posts
Posted on 10/15/12 at 5:56 pm to
Well, I could put all of my money in my savings account. That would get me an interest rate of .00000001%.
Posted by StrangeBrew
Salvation Army-Thanks Obama
Member since May 2009
18185 posts
Posted on 10/15/12 at 6:06 pm to
Election Outcome is the only thing I can think of.
Posted by Meauxjeaux
98836 posts including my alters
Member since Jun 2005
40223 posts
Posted on 10/16/12 at 9:42 am to
Looks like the PPT has now been re-tasked as the MUT (Market Upswing).

Posted by LSU0358
Member since Jan 2005
7920 posts
Posted on 10/16/12 at 10:27 am to
QE3? Possible bottoming in EU stock markets? Spainish IBEX up ~40% from mid-July to mid September. Possible long term bottom in housing (I'm using housing index HGX for this guess) with HGX up close to 117% in the last year.

Lot's of good things out there added in with QE3 would be my guess.
Posted by Gujam8
Member since Jun 2010
2361 posts
Posted on 10/16/12 at 12:06 pm to
Earnings might not be as bad as expected
Posted by Jed Zeppelin
Maurice
Member since Feb 2010
1049 posts
Posted on 10/16/12 at 12:58 pm to
One more thing Russian. I would like to see the dollar VS the Dow over the last few years. I suppose this falls into the flight to quality argument, but as Zach said, poor returns on money market accounts, and the dollar getting smoked.....maybe the risk in the market is more tollerable than other investments right now? The right now part is what's sort of scary.

But I really dont know crap. I run my own money and do just ok.
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
126977 posts
Posted on 10/16/12 at 4:03 pm to
Many good ideas in this thread.

All of them could be correct and then again, none of them may be correct. I sure can't figure it out.

The only other time I've seen the market behave like this in my investing career the chairman of the Federal Reserve gave a speech and referred to the market as having "irrational exuberance."

To the poster who said perhaps the market is reacting to the upcoming presidential election, I've thought about that myself. It seems the market has elevated since the first presidential debate and the subsequent polls showing a revived Romney campaign. If that's it, we will know three weeks from today.

Thanks to everyone for your responses.
Posted by Tiger n Miami AU83
Miami
Member since Oct 2007
45656 posts
Posted on 10/17/12 at 9:05 am to
I don't think it has been mentioned, but I believe a large part is related to anemic bond yields and people needing/wanting somewhere to park their money.

FTR, I rebalanced recently at about DOW 13,500 from heavily weighted in equities to primary bonds and cash equivalents.

I think the market is currently overvalued.
Posted by Putty
Member since Oct 2003
25492 posts
Posted on 10/17/12 at 11:31 am to
quote:

Why is the stock market moving up?
Serious question: What am I missing?


If a guy like you doesn't know the answer to this...I am royally fricked.
Posted by C
Houston
Member since Dec 2007
27832 posts
Posted on 10/17/12 at 11:40 am to
quote:

Serious question: What am I missing?


$$$
Posted by Catman88
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Dec 2004
49125 posts
Posted on 10/17/12 at 1:19 pm to
I think we are on an obvious bubble. With the corp profit margins being pretty high in past months that explained the good earnings forcasts in the past but that is not true anymore maybe we are about to hit a plateau before the fall??

Sorta feels like the moment the coyote runs off the cliff.
Posted by greenhead11
Member since Feb 2012
923 posts
Posted on 10/17/12 at 1:52 pm to
Your guess is as good as mine, but QE was part of the reason for the run up, as Flask said flight to quality but I feel that helped the market circa last spring. I honestly think too its some short covering/hedge mutual funds etc trying to catch up on sub par returns. Rest of the world is coasting, Europe seems to be making progress.

My question to flask is what sign have you seen of the retail investor coming back? Any fund flows out of bonds to equities? I haven't been quite a tune to the market or MB lately. School has been kickin my arse.

I've been short the dollar and had S&P puts since July in ,an allocation. Still waiting it out
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