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Started By
Message
re: A Memo to Coach Les Miles - an appeal to show CHARACTER
Posted on 1/11/12 at 10:49 am to 7thWardTiger
Posted on 1/11/12 at 10:49 am to 7thWardTiger
quote:
I'm sure Miles threw away Million dollar bonuses, coaching prestige, bragging rights, endorsement deals, etc for a personal vendetta.
this is called a strawman argument.
If you are intellectually incapable of representing people's views, that they type out for you in words, then you need to stop posting.
Posted on 1/11/12 at 10:50 am to 7thWardTiger
quote:
you're a fool, and i never use that word. I'm sure Miles threw away Million dollar bonuses, coaching prestige, bragging rights, endorsement deals, etc for a personal vendetta. Anyone who honestly believes that is a fool.
Did it seem like his game plan was working in first 3 quarters with JJ? Tell me what JJ did in the first 3 quarters that told you he was best option to win in the 4th quarter.
Did another QB not deserve a chance?
If he had no trust in Lee, then get Mett ready.
Newton learned in a year. Mett probably did as well. Take up for your boy all you want, but there is something going on.
Posted on 1/11/12 at 10:50 am to 7thWardTiger
quote:
Because what if Jefferson goes down with an injury? All back up qbs are involved in the game plan.
I believe it was communicated that he was not just involved in practicing for backup duties, but was part of the game plan meaning he was going to be used even if Jefferson was healthy.
Posted on 1/11/12 at 10:50 am to 7thWardTiger
quote:oooo, thats the reason.. coach should have told the team that then....
Because what if Jefferson goes down with an injury?
Posted on 1/11/12 at 10:51 am to GeauxTigerTM
You seem to go to the opposite extreme very often in an attempt to dismiss people's thoughts that are not even close to that.
It could also be as simple as Lee blasted off on Miles behind closed doors about not playing him enough, or not giving him another chance in the first Bama game, and that made Miles question whether he was the right guy.
See, that's an alternate to your view, and is not some conspiracy or a knock on anyone's character.
It's not about wanting an apology, it's just bewilderment and a refusal to readily swallow the words of the coach, who is famous for his coach speak. I wonder what he said to Lee, or what Lee said to him.
It could also be as simple as Lee blasted off on Miles behind closed doors about not playing him enough, or not giving him another chance in the first Bama game, and that made Miles question whether he was the right guy.
See, that's an alternate to your view, and is not some conspiracy or a knock on anyone's character.
It's not about wanting an apology, it's just bewilderment and a refusal to readily swallow the words of the coach, who is famous for his coach speak. I wonder what he said to Lee, or what Lee said to him.
Posted on 1/11/12 at 10:54 am to TiegerTim
quote:
they expect the starter who is playing fine to get pulled after one bad game? and the subsequent starter to have multiple bad games and not get pulled? i missed seeing where "big-time" programs expect that..
No, they expect backups to step in and play well. Doesn't necessarily make them the new starter.
quote:
i think that his assessment that it wasn't fair to put JL in the game is BS and he knows it...
I agree completely.
I, however, disagree that it shows a flaw in his CHARACTER. A man of low character would have said publicly what his reasons were for not playing Lee, in order to take heat off of himself. These reasons, by definition, would not be complementary towards Lee.
So we have guys on here calling our coach out on a CHARACTER issue simply because he is not publicly throwing a player under the bus. Look at the thread title.
Now, if you ask me if I think JJ is better than JL--- I do not think so.I would lean toward JL. But I also admit I have never watched a practice or sat in a meeting and all I have seen is JL play against teams that were defensively inferior to what JJ played against. So bottom line is I have no idea really.
I do not object to asking for Lee to have played. I do object to it being framed as a character issue, especially when choosing a horse at QB and riding it is pretty much standard procedure.
Posted on 1/11/12 at 10:57 am to CptBengal
quote:this is gold coming from you. Please shut the frick up. K. Thnx. Bye
If you are intellectually incapable of representing people's views, that they type out for you in words, then you need to stop posting.
Posted on 1/11/12 at 11:04 am to HuRRiCaNe MiLeS
quote:he didn't do anything. Going into the 4th we were only down what, 12-0? One big play and we're right back in it. The coaching staff felt comfortable with JJ remaining in the game. Did their decision turn out to be one that didn't lead to victory? Yes. Doesn't mean it still wasn't the right call to make. Hindsight is 20/20.
Did it seem like his game plan was working in first 3 quarters with JJ? Tell me what JJ did in the first 3 quarters that told you he was best option to win in the 4th quarter.
quote:according to Les and the staff, no, they danced with the date that brought them.
Did another QB not deserve a chance?
quote:miles felt more comfortable with Jefferson, instead of Lee. There's nothing more to it. You and others might want it to be, but its not. Its not. There's no conspiracy. No vendetta. No behind the scenes issues. Nothing.
If he had no trust in Lee, then get Mett ready. Newton learned in a year. Mett probably did as well. Take up for your boy all you want, but there is something going on.
Posted on 1/11/12 at 11:05 am to TotalYatMove
quote:
It could also be as simple as Lee blasted off on Miles behind closed doors about not playing him enough, or not giving him another chance in the first Bama game, and that made Miles question whether he was the right guy.
See, that's an alternate to your view, and is not some conspiracy or a knock on anyone's character.
First, the issue regarding character was one the OP brought up. If you haven't read the original post which started this thread...you know, the one that got me involved in this debate, I suggest you do so. I've defended this point because I see no reason to question Miles character for not playing a player which is what the OP did.
As for your hypothesis...why pull that out of your arse? We have absolutely NO evidence that ANYTHING other than the coach's assessment of ability has gone into this decision...do we? why must we assume that it HAS TO BE some personal issue, be it large or small, that was preventing Miles from seeing exactly what so many fans saw in Lee? Can he not have simply made this decision based on what he thought were his players' strengths and gone with it...rightly or wrongly?
quote:
It's not about wanting an apology,
Look around just on the first page of The Rant. It clearly is for some.
quote:
I wonder what he said to Lee, or what Lee said to him.
I'd be curious to know if anything was said, but to even suggest such a thing makes it sound like Miles would be doing some sort of apology to Lee or that Lee would have had some choice words for Les.
to be honest, I've going to go with Occum's Razor on this topic...just no reason to pull a hypothetical personal reason out of thin air when a simpler one is there to see...regardless of whether or not fans agree with it.
Posted on 1/11/12 at 11:14 am to Vol Fan in the Bayou
quote:
My point is that this isn't baseball where you attribute wins and loses to pitchers.
By that logic Brees has little to do with the Saints victories. The QB is the equivalent of the pitcher. Hence 8-0 as starter stats.
I'm not saying JJ lost the game. CLM lost the game by leaving him in. ARK and UGA games and whatever the hell that was monday night the offense looked like a bunch of drunk frat boys drawing up plays in the sand. Much the same as it did last year. We didn't win those games because of JJ and CLM, but in spite of them.
Posted on 1/11/12 at 11:25 am to Capt ST
quote:
By that logic Brees has little to do with the Saints victories. The QB is the equivalent of the pitcher. Hence 8-0 as starter stats.
I also said this:
quote:
Can a single player make a difference? Heck yes
But without a great OL, incredible WR's and all world TE Drew Brees is an great QB with average numbers and few wins.
quote:
CLM lost the game by leaving him in.
Although I consider it a bad decision, I don't think CLM's decision to leave JJ in the game the single reason LSU lost. The offense (coaches included) played poorly. Just horrible!!! Defense was good and did their job. Just didn't get the big play we come to expect.
Posted on 1/11/12 at 11:28 am to Capt ST
I agree to a an extent with the letter. As long as Im sending my money to TAF and paying outrageous prices for season tix, then I feel he does owe some kind of explanation for his despicable treatment of JL. Im not a big JL fan but the way he treated that kid goes beyond rational reasoning. And after all, what could it have hurt to try him in the NC game. We werent doing anything positive anyway.
LSU is a PUBLIC university and, therefore, in some ways a PUBLIC entity. Fk shielding this guy from the dirty little secrets that he and the staff are harboring. He needs to come clean and now! If he was the CEO of a gaint corporation, he would be held accountible and have to answer for his actions.
Hebert wasnt so out of line to get after this guy!
LSU is a PUBLIC university and, therefore, in some ways a PUBLIC entity. Fk shielding this guy from the dirty little secrets that he and the staff are harboring. He needs to come clean and now! If he was the CEO of a gaint corporation, he would be held accountible and have to answer for his actions.
Hebert wasnt so out of line to get after this guy!
Posted on 1/11/12 at 11:33 am to therocketscientist
quote:
you will lack accountability for questionable individual decisions
Stopped right there. He's accountable for every decision, but never will it be to you or any FAN
Posted on 1/11/12 at 11:35 am to Breaux
post script for those on this rant missing the point: The reference to character is based on Miles SEEMINGLY making his decision based on performance. It relates to Miles selecting not to play Jarrett under any conditions, even the worse, which no one is really buying. It is not referencing the start of the game, the predominant playing by JJ for the majority of the game, it is based on the last quarter of the national championship game, when Les made it clear to the entire universe that he was not playing Lee under any circumstance in favor of staying with a Qb who was playing the worse game ever seen on such a stage. As such, no one believes that Miles was making that decision based on Lee's performance capability, so there is something else. This memo is asking for him to DEFEND HIS CHARACTER by giving some form of a reference to what it is, because NO ONE WITH ANY REASONABLE SENSE OF INTELLIGENCE BELIEVES THAT MILES PLAYED JJ OVER LEE IN THE 4TH QTR BECAUSE HE FELT JJ WOULD DO BETTER THAN LEE. Lee would have to be the most incapable QB in history to be unworthy of at least an attempt IN THIS SPECIFIC SCENARIO IN THE 4TH QTR. As such, we simply DO NOT BELIEVE LES MILES, and that is a character issue, plain and simple. HE can change that by coming up with some other statement to allow us to rule out character as an issue. Otherwise, many are left to wonder if sme form of petty personality issue was put above the entire LSU nation, and that is a character issue when he is paid to try to win the game, not to win some form of petty teenage like battle behind the scenes. SO, I am asking him to rule out that, and to make some form of a statement to the world. I don't think he will, as I state at the top, because I think he will hide in a shell and let time takes its course. He is a betting man, so perhaps that is his way. I think a man of true CHARACTER would MAN UP and find some way to tell the world something OTHER THAN PERFORMANCE as the reason why he did not play Lee IN THE 4TH QTR. There are ways to do such things. Anyone who has lived in a corporate or governmental organization for any lengnth of time has seen memos to such effect. He can get the entire Athletic and Communications departments at LSU to aid him in such a communication. If he does hide in vagueness, we are left to assume that petty personality issues are in-play. I am NOT saying this is what happened, but I am saying that he should find a way to make a case on something OTHER than performance, because no reasonable person is buying that. This is too important of a game and situation to hide in a corner. If he does that, then his character is all the more flawed.
Posted on 1/11/12 at 11:37 am to therocketscientist
Miles Response:
"I played my starting QB in the biggest game of my career, things went poorly, sorry"
He already said that. What more do you folks want.
That IS the explanation. You all act as if you have never seen a depth chart, or a football game. (Hint, there are just as many losers as their are winners...it happens)
"I played my starting QB in the biggest game of my career, things went poorly, sorry"
He already said that. What more do you folks want.
That IS the explanation. You all act as if you have never seen a depth chart, or a football game. (Hint, there are just as many losers as their are winners...it happens)
Posted on 1/11/12 at 11:37 am to Deep Fried
Talking about character... not football record.
In his case arrogance/stubbornness seems to trump character.
I am going back to the co-defensive coordinator fiasco that costs us games....
I think he feels that if it is HIS DECISION, IT MUST BE RIGHT, regardless of the facts.
Stubbornness is a big factor of his personality
he is paid $4MM + .he has multiple QBs, if his so called "BEST" is not playing well,
it is his job to fix it and not allow the loss.
That's why there is a back up.
he preferred to lose the game and surrender instead of changing his mind and "try" JL.
How much worse could JL have done, we were at "0" points
In his case arrogance/stubbornness seems to trump character.
I am going back to the co-defensive coordinator fiasco that costs us games....
I think he feels that if it is HIS DECISION, IT MUST BE RIGHT, regardless of the facts.
Stubbornness is a big factor of his personality
quote:So that makes it OK ???
"I played my starting QB in the biggest game of my career, things went poorly, sorry"
he is paid $4MM + .he has multiple QBs, if his so called "BEST" is not playing well,
it is his job to fix it and not allow the loss.
That's why there is a back up.
he preferred to lose the game and surrender instead of changing his mind and "try" JL.
How much worse could JL have done, we were at "0" points
This post was edited on 1/11/12 at 11:41 am
Posted on 1/11/12 at 11:41 am to rbdallas
quote:
HIS DECISION, IT MUST BE RIGHT
Thats how I feel about my decisions, dont you.
I analyze, I study, I research, and I decide. I stay the course. Generally it works out in the end. That is the nature of making decisions.
I have seen women do it differently.
Posted on 1/11/12 at 11:41 am to tigerfoot
quote:too logical, did not read. Its personal between Miles and Lee
Miles Response:
"I played my starting QB in the biggest game of my career, things went poorly, sorry"
He already said that. What more do you folks want.
That IS the explanation. You all act as if you have never seen a depth chart, or a football game. (Hint, there are just as many losers as their are winners...it happens)
Posted on 1/11/12 at 11:42 am to 7thWardTiger
quote:
The coaching staff felt comfortable with JJ remaining in the game. Did their decision turn out to be one that didn't lead to victory? Yes
No shite. Les miles and co thought the option with JJ was going to lead us to victory in the fourth? Lee deserved a chance whether you like it or not. But I can see why you support miles decision to keep JJ in. Everyone in the world knew JJ was not doing jack shite that game.
Posted on 1/11/12 at 11:43 am to tigerfoot
quote:
Thats how I feel about my decisions, dont you.
going in yes, but if the facts are proving me wrong
I adapt and change.
It is what's expected of a professional ...
Ultimately he gets paid for results.
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