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Started By
Message
re: north-south split
Posted on 9/30/11 at 3:42 pm to Beaux
Posted on 9/30/11 at 3:42 pm to Beaux
quote:
What we have to realize that with this expansion , rivalry games will be lost, its just a fact, sad thing to see but i guess new rivalries will develop
If we lose our 'rivalries' with Georgia, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, or even Florida, I wouldn't care at all. However, it would suck to lose our biggest rival so A&M can pounded each year by teams that are actually good.
0
Posted on 9/30/11 at 3:47 pm to am4titansandlsu
quote:
just throwing it out there, but a north-south split could be very balanced
north- missouri, kentucky, vandy, tenn, bama, georgia, arkansas
south-lsu, miss st, tex am, florida, south carolina, auburn, ole miss
then uphold old rivalries with permanent opponents
bama-auburn
missouri-tex am
miss st-uk
tenn-south carolina
lsu-ark
georgia- florida
vandy-ole miss
Really not a bad idea at all - but the one big problem is recruiting. Florida and A&M are both in teh south and that means the talent in the SEC will probably disproportionately be in the south
It wouldn't be as unbalanced as what you saw in the Big 12 before Nebraska and Colorado left - but it would still be an issue
Posted on 9/30/11 at 5:33 pm to RunningBlake
quote:
Mizzou should go to east IMO
Here is a better idea. Put all of the SEC in one division and put Mizzou in another division. We'll call Mizzou's division the Big12
This post was edited on 9/30/11 at 5:35 pm
Posted on 9/30/11 at 5:58 pm to PJinAtl
I knew about Bama's, but for some reason, I thought Aubie had a long streak with Tenn too. My mistake. More to my point though, an Alabama rivalry (AU/UGA) would prevent the OP's proposal from working.
Posted on 9/30/11 at 6:37 pm to Archie Bengal Bunker
quote:
northEast
arky
Mizzou
UT
UK
SCar
UF
UGA
Southwest
Vandy
Bama
Aubie
LSU
MSU
OM
A&M
thats what I suggested in another thread and stand by it.
Posted on 9/30/11 at 6:44 pm to am4titansandlsu
LSU would still bitch about having to play Florida though.
Posted on 9/30/11 at 8:28 pm to Monticello
Screw the Alabama schools and their perceived rivalries. aggy caused all of this so let the Presidents that voted for this crap expansion explain it to their "fans" in Alabama.
Posted on 9/30/11 at 9:06 pm to stapuffmarshy
I know football is king. However, it is pretty interesting if you look at these divisions people are proposing from a basketball side of things, especially considering that based on current state of programs both Mizzou and A&M would be Top 5 SEC basketball programs.
Posted on 10/1/11 at 1:20 am to am4titansandlsu
gotta keep florida and texas separated...
kick aubie east
bama decides on tenn or aubie as perma-foe.
loser gets mizzou...Tenn/mizzou perma foe is kinda interesting
kick aubie east
bama decides on tenn or aubie as perma-foe.
loser gets mizzou...Tenn/mizzou perma foe is kinda interesting
Posted on 10/1/11 at 2:07 am to am4titansandlsu
If your doing it geographcally Bama goes to the South and USC to the North since Columbia is further north than Tuscaloosa.
Posted on 10/4/11 at 4:09 pm to am4titansandlsu
quote:
old rivalries
quote:
lsu-ark
No. Yes, I know we played them a lot a really really long time ago, but as "old" rivalries go, we have a longer and better one with Kentucky than with Arkie. Also, I'd hate to stop playing Alabama every year, although at current strengths for all teams, we'd be meeting them in the SECCG pretty often, it seems.
This post was edited on 10/4/11 at 4:10 pm
Posted on 10/4/11 at 4:25 pm to RunningBlake
quote:
Mizzou should go to east IMO
this
Posted on 10/4/11 at 4:28 pm to Nuts4LSU
I had drawn up something similar on another board, but the best I could come up with (to keep the 2 divisions roughly equal in power) isn't quite geographically correct. Also didn't like North South naming, because... 
"North"
Alabama
Auburn
Arkansas
Missouri
Tennessee
Kentucky
Vandy
"South"
LSU
Florida
Georgia
South Carolina
Texas A&M
Ole Miss
Miss State
Keeping the 1 permanent opponent:
Alabama - LSU
Auburn - Georgia
Tennessee - Florida
Arkansas - Texas A&M
Missouri - South Carolina
Kentucky - Miss. State
Vandy - Ole Miss
Geographical problems end up everywhere, between USCe, Georgia, & the Alabama and Mississippi schools.
But that setup, best I could figure, kept most of the important rivalries (UA/AU, UA/UT, AU/UGA, UGA/FL, FL/UT, FL/LSU, UA/LSU, A&M/Arky, Vandy/Ole Miss, Kentucky/Miss. State, UT/Vandy and UT/Kentucky) And best separation of power (which is a subjective and ever changing beast).
But, I do know that AU/LSU and AU/FL doesn't happen, and that AU is further south. So, if you move AU south, who is the best choice to move north? If you swap the Miss and Alabama schools, the South has 90% of the power (UA, AU, LSU, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, and Texas A&M)
But it's a whole radical setup, and too much changing.
So, odds are, Mizz to the west, AU to the East, and a September/October Iron bowl.
"North"
Alabama
Auburn
Arkansas
Missouri
Tennessee
Kentucky
Vandy
"South"
LSU
Florida
Georgia
South Carolina
Texas A&M
Ole Miss
Miss State
Keeping the 1 permanent opponent:
Alabama - LSU
Auburn - Georgia
Tennessee - Florida
Arkansas - Texas A&M
Missouri - South Carolina
Kentucky - Miss. State
Vandy - Ole Miss
Geographical problems end up everywhere, between USCe, Georgia, & the Alabama and Mississippi schools.
But that setup, best I could figure, kept most of the important rivalries (UA/AU, UA/UT, AU/UGA, UGA/FL, FL/UT, FL/LSU, UA/LSU, A&M/Arky, Vandy/Ole Miss, Kentucky/Miss. State, UT/Vandy and UT/Kentucky) And best separation of power (which is a subjective and ever changing beast).
But, I do know that AU/LSU and AU/FL doesn't happen, and that AU is further south. So, if you move AU south, who is the best choice to move north? If you swap the Miss and Alabama schools, the South has 90% of the power (UA, AU, LSU, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, and Texas A&M)
But it's a whole radical setup, and too much changing.
So, odds are, Mizz to the west, AU to the East, and a September/October Iron bowl.
Posted on 10/4/11 at 4:35 pm to IceTiger
quote:
Tenn/mizzou perma foe is kinda interesting
Not really.
Posted on 10/4/11 at 4:38 pm to theGarnetWay
quote:
Try labeling SCers "Northern" of any kind and see what kind of reaction you get.
nobody gives a shite what the cocks think.
Posted on 10/4/11 at 4:54 pm to LoneMDG
14 as a final number is really an incredibly ugly number - with 8 conference games you have 6 within each division and then two from the opposite division
That leaves you between teh proverbial rock and a hard place because you have to either drop a traditional rivalry (fixed opposite division opponent) to rotate your remaining two games or have only one rotating opponent. One rotating opponent ends up being pretty silly because that means you only play the the other six teams 2 times every twelve years.
Go to 9 conference games you suggest? Well then you can rotate more teams but you have more unequal scheduling as half your conference gets home games (and everyone in the conference loses home gates/revenues in the long run)
If the NCAA would allow for a two round conference championship playoff 16 teams is a much more rational approach - because you end up with the ability to rotate more teams.
Let's assume (very prematurely) that MU is going to teh SEC and they decide to grow further to 16 for scheduling reasons. For the purpose of illustration I added A&M, MU, WVU, and FSU
Division 1 (SW): LSU, A&M, Arkansas, Ole Miss
Division 2 (NW): Bama, UT, MU, MSU
Division 3 (NE): UGA, Auburn, WVU, Vandy
Division 4 (SE): Florida, FSU, KY, USC
I recognize the geography on these divisions isn't perfect but it is somewhat close and divides up the Big 6 (plus A&M/FSU) into different divisions.
Your fixed opponents would have to go something like:
Auburn-Bama
UGA-Florida
LSU-FSU
UT-A&M
Arkansas-MU
WVU-USC
Ole Miss-MSU
KY-Vandy
The biggest loss would be LSU/Bama and LSU/Florida games IMO... but there really is no way around this (and playing FSU instead is at least a substitution of a premiere program)
That leaves you between teh proverbial rock and a hard place because you have to either drop a traditional rivalry (fixed opposite division opponent) to rotate your remaining two games or have only one rotating opponent. One rotating opponent ends up being pretty silly because that means you only play the the other six teams 2 times every twelve years.
Go to 9 conference games you suggest? Well then you can rotate more teams but you have more unequal scheduling as half your conference gets home games (and everyone in the conference loses home gates/revenues in the long run)
If the NCAA would allow for a two round conference championship playoff 16 teams is a much more rational approach - because you end up with the ability to rotate more teams.
Let's assume (very prematurely) that MU is going to teh SEC and they decide to grow further to 16 for scheduling reasons. For the purpose of illustration I added A&M, MU, WVU, and FSU
Division 1 (SW): LSU, A&M, Arkansas, Ole Miss
Division 2 (NW): Bama, UT, MU, MSU
Division 3 (NE): UGA, Auburn, WVU, Vandy
Division 4 (SE): Florida, FSU, KY, USC
I recognize the geography on these divisions isn't perfect but it is somewhat close and divides up the Big 6 (plus A&M/FSU) into different divisions.
Your fixed opponents would have to go something like:
Auburn-Bama
UGA-Florida
LSU-FSU
UT-A&M
Arkansas-MU
WVU-USC
Ole Miss-MSU
KY-Vandy
The biggest loss would be LSU/Bama and LSU/Florida games IMO... but there really is no way around this (and playing FSU instead is at least a substitution of a premiere program)
Posted on 10/4/11 at 5:09 pm to molsusports
The best and easist approach is to just drop the permanent x-div game. 4 div/ 9 games allows you to play the entire conf home and away in 4 years. While I'm sure the coaches would hate it, you can alternate teams each year so you play the whole conference in 2 year:
yr 1: AL home
yr 2: AU away
yr 3: AL away
yr 4: AU home
This way the older rivalries wouldn't get too stale. You can organize the div to maintain all but one of the key long term rivalries among AL, AU, TN, GA, and FL. Vote for simplicity.
yr 1: AL home
yr 2: AU away
yr 3: AL away
yr 4: AU home
This way the older rivalries wouldn't get too stale. You can organize the div to maintain all but one of the key long term rivalries among AL, AU, TN, GA, and FL. Vote for simplicity.
Posted on 10/4/11 at 5:14 pm to Indiana Tiger
9 games sounds like a no go to me for several reasons:
1) you end up with more unequal scheduling - half the teams get an extra home conference game and half get an extra road game
2) you lose home gate revenue (half a game per year on average)... a good part of the whole expansion thing is to make more money
3) if you have 8 conference games with four fixed opponents (three in division, one from another division) you still have four out of division opponents to play with per year. With 16 teams that means you still play everyone at least twice every six years (and that's about what we already see in the SEC today)
8 conference games would work and 9 offers no substantial advantages (but some disadvantages)
1) you end up with more unequal scheduling - half the teams get an extra home conference game and half get an extra road game
2) you lose home gate revenue (half a game per year on average)... a good part of the whole expansion thing is to make more money
3) if you have 8 conference games with four fixed opponents (three in division, one from another division) you still have four out of division opponents to play with per year. With 16 teams that means you still play everyone at least twice every six years (and that's about what we already see in the SEC today)
8 conference games would work and 9 offers no substantial advantages (but some disadvantages)
Posted on 10/4/11 at 6:05 pm to molsusports
quote:
1) you end up with more unequal scheduling - half the teams get an extra home conference game and half get an extra road game
Yes this is true, but it is only one dimension of unequal scheduling. When you play 8, balanced schedules, in terms of traditional powers is more difficult. For example consider the following div:
AL
AU
TN
Vandy
with 9 games you would play something like AL/Vandy and then TN/AU in off cycles. With 8 teams you can't always play 2 teams, so some will only play one tean in this division and for some that will only mean Vandy. Even though the strength of these teams will vary over time, splitting up the traditional powers will lead to more balance over time.
quote:
2) you lose home gate revenue (half a game per year on average)... a good part of the whole expansion thing is to make more money
This is just not true in practice. The only way for it to be true is if everyone only plays OOC games at home. If that were true it would mean only shitty opponents. So you are argueing that an inferior product is more valuable. IMO, the 9 conference games facilitates the scheduling of a quality OOC home and home. You sched qual OOC at home when you play 5 on the road and away when you play 5 at home.
quote:
3) if you have 8 conference games with four fixed opponents (three in division, one from another division) you still have four out of division opponents to play with per year. With 16 teams that means you still play everyone at least twice every six years (and that's about what we already see in the SEC today)
6 is too long. We are at 5 today, which should be the max as it is the normal max eligibility of a player.
quote:
8 conference games would work and 9 offers no substantial advantages (but some disadvantages)
8 has big disadvantages and a minor advantage. 9 has simplicity; 9 maximizes schedule quality; 9 maximizes conference coherence; 9 facilitates quality OOC opponent scheduling.
Posted on 10/4/11 at 6:17 pm to IceTiger
quote:
bama decides on tenn or aubie as perma-foe.
I'd vote Tennessee.
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