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re: People Melting over Orgeron. Why not wait and see?
Posted on 10/20/16 at 2:23 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Posted on 10/20/16 at 2:23 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Being a great interim coach and being a great permanent head coach are 2 totally different skill sets. Obviously O is a great interim coach but what happened at Ole Miss is pretty damning, especially when LSU will have plenty of other options out there even past Herman and Fisher.
Who? Fleck?
We just disagree on how his time this year as interim coach will translate to the full time gig.
Many times, interim head coaches flame out because they weren't ready for the big time. They maybe could have succeeded at a smaller school but the big job was too much for them. I don't think the gravity of the situation would be too much for Orgeron given his time spent both at USC and now LSU.
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Posted on 10/20/16 at 2:24 pm to releauxded2469
quote:
This is a multimillion dollar decision and it shouldn't be based on a couple of stints as interim head coach at places already stocked with championship talent.
Actual reason. How refreshing. People need to recognize that building and maintaining a championship caliber program across multiple seasons is a radically different task than winning a finite number of games as an interim coach within a single season.
Posted on 10/20/16 at 2:29 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
with questionable game day coaching
questionable?? There was nothing questionable about it. It was terrible.
Posted on 10/20/16 at 2:36 pm to DmitriKaramazov
quote:
Actual reason. How refreshing. People need to recognize that building and maintaining a championship caliber program across multiple seasons is a radically different task than winning a finite number of games as an interim coach within a single season.
People keep spouting this same tired bullshite with nothing to back it up. What are the specific skills required that differentiate a full time HC from an interim that Orgeron will not have either shown he possesses or not by the end of this season?
Posted on 10/20/16 at 2:36 pm to Smalls
I'll tell you what I say every time this is brought up. If LSU wins out, I still want Herman over coach O. We win with coach O this year on an Uber talented and experienced team, great, but I'm looking towards the future.
- If people think we dip in recruiting with losing Ed O and getting Herman, you're nuts!
- If people think Herman with Louisiana and Texas talent won't improve LSU's offense drastically compared to coach O, you're nuts!
O still wants to run a pro style offense, O still wants to rely heavily on pro style QBs, I want a guy that can take a dual threat or a highly mobile pro style QB, like Brennan, and put him in an extremely wide open spread offense. We need to look towards the future. If not we're going to continue to wait til these spread guys (all of LSU's QBs minus Etling will be spread) are juniors and seniors at QB before they are even good in a pro style.
- If people think we dip in recruiting with losing Ed O and getting Herman, you're nuts!
- If people think Herman with Louisiana and Texas talent won't improve LSU's offense drastically compared to coach O, you're nuts!
O still wants to run a pro style offense, O still wants to rely heavily on pro style QBs, I want a guy that can take a dual threat or a highly mobile pro style QB, like Brennan, and put him in an extremely wide open spread offense. We need to look towards the future. If not we're going to continue to wait til these spread guys (all of LSU's QBs minus Etling will be spread) are juniors and seniors at QB before they are even good in a pro style.
Posted on 10/20/16 at 2:48 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
He was a position coach. He wasnt getting any offers to be a defensive coordinator. Its telling that you have a problem with saying lsu shouldn't promote their Dline coach(THATS WHAT HE WAS) to permanent head coach.
Do you think coach O would be a candidate for HC at Bama, usc,texas,florida,ohio state,auburn?
If not then why the hell would you want him to be lsu's hc?
Again I have no idea why you're so hung up on him not getting DC offers. That's not his skillset and never will be, and you just admitted calling one side of the ball well is not an indication of HC success. We wouldn't be hiring our DL coach, we would be hiring our recruiting coordinator and assistant HC which is what his title was under miles. So again, he wasn't just a position coach, and it's his skillset that got him a power 5 HC interview last year. There's now a large contingent of USC boosters and alums who think Orgeron should have been hired full time, and you can bet your arse he'll be in the conversation for major jobs like those you listed if he takes this team to the playoff and LSU is arrogant enough to think Larry fricking Fedora is a better hire just cause he's won a few games at shitty schools.
Posted on 10/20/16 at 2:52 pm to TheDrunkenTigah
quote:
Again I have no idea why you're so hung up on him not getting DC offers. That's not his skillset and never will be, and you just admitted calling one side of the ball well is not an indication of HC success. We wouldn't be hiring our DL coach, we would be hiring our recruiting coordinator and assistant HC which is what his title was under miles
I know this is crazy, but I kinda want someone that knows something about football philosophy.
Even out of position coaches, I think the D-line coach is amongst the last ones I trust has a grasp on football theory. The D-line is the extent of his expertise. You can't ignore that.
This post was edited on 10/20/16 at 3:05 pm
Posted on 10/20/16 at 2:57 pm to TheDrunkenTigah
quote:
People keep spouting this same tired bullshite with nothing to back it up. What are the specific skills required that differentiate a full time HC from an interim that Orgeron will not have either shown he possesses or not by the end of this season?
Are you quite serious? It would take untold paragraphs to fully differentiate between the two. For present purposes, I'll name three pivotal distinctions. First, recruiting. And remember, as head coach, you aren't simply responsible for wooing specific players, you have to craft effective multi-year plans regarding how to deploy limited scholarships. You don't want to end up with a glut of five stars at one position and no depth at another. Similarly, a permanent head coach has to manage transfers and attrition over multiple seasons. Second, assistant hiring. Right now, O has a staff in place. What happens if, to take one example, Aranda leaves after next year? The head coach would have to be able to successfully evaluate and attract a promising replacement. That's a function you don't have to perform as an intra-season interim coach. Third, changing your systems over time. When our SEC foes have extensive tape on our new permanent coach from years' worth of games, will he be able to effectively adapt, anticipate, and innovate? That's precisely where Miles ultimately failed.
Those are just three. I didn't even mention things like modulating your leadership style (so you don't grate on players and lose their attention over time), maximizing the productivity of spring practice, being ultimately accountable for every aspect of NCAA compliance, instilling a lasting culture of discipline and winning, and so and and so forth.
Posted on 10/20/16 at 3:05 pm to DmitriKaramazov
quote:
Are you quite serious? It would take untold paragraphs to fully differentiate between the two. For present purposes, I'll name three pivotal distinctions.
They probably think Coach O will just hire people to do those jobs for him too. Isn't that what was so great about him?
Posted on 10/20/16 at 3:23 pm to DmitriKaramazov
So in other words, recruiting, and the same exact risks and unknowns associated with any coach.
Posted on 10/20/16 at 3:28 pm to TheDrunkenTigah
quote:
Again I have no idea why you're so hung up on him not getting DC offers. That's not his skillset and never will be, and you just admitted calling one side of the ball well is not an indication of HC success.
His skillset sure isnt being a head coach. He failed miserably at his last stop. Since then he has not even gotten DC offersn which is is side of the ball. Please let me know how many coaches get HC positions, at major cfb programs, without even getting coordinator jobs. It doesnt happen.
quote:
There's now a large contingent of USC boosters and alums who think Orgeron should have been hired full time
Link.
If so many programs are so interested in him why didnt he have any offers to be a dc? You do realize that dc is ABOVE dline and recruiting coordinator right?
Were you happy when Miles was hired? Miles resume, before lsu, shits on Coach O's resume. Only an idiot would fire Les Miles and replace him with a DLINE COACH( that is what ed orgeron was).
It would make more sense giving Aranda the hc job. He has actually ran a side of the ball effectively at major college. Something coach o has never done.
This post was edited on 10/20/16 at 3:34 pm
Posted on 10/20/16 at 3:33 pm to TheDrunkenTigah
What has ed oregeron done to warrant getting one of the best jobs in cfb?
If winning 10 games with talented team is your threshold then we shouldve kept Miles and had 2 great recruiters instead of 1.
If winning 10 games with talented team is your threshold then we shouldve kept Miles and had 2 great recruiters instead of 1.
Posted on 10/20/16 at 3:56 pm to TheDrunkenTigah
quote:The fact you dont recognize the difference between running a program and being an interim coach is astounding.
TheDrunkenTigah
Posted on 10/20/16 at 4:14 pm to lsupride87
I realize the difference just fine, and I never said there wasn't one.
I am just tired of seeing that same card played as if it's some kind of law with no actual explanation as to the specific things some will still question about Orgeron even if he wins an SEC title as an interim. The usual response isn't "he hasn't managed the roster or handled an offseason," it's hurr durrr Ole piss a decade ago.
I am just tired of seeing that same card played as if it's some kind of law with no actual explanation as to the specific things some will still question about Orgeron even if he wins an SEC title as an interim. The usual response isn't "he hasn't managed the roster or handled an offseason," it's hurr durrr Ole piss a decade ago.
Posted on 10/20/16 at 4:25 pm to Rickdaddy4188
quote:
What has ed oregeron done to warrant getting one of the best jobs in cfb?
Not enough yet. That's the point of this thread and has been my stance on him from day one. We simply disagree on what him winning this year proves.
quote:
If winning 10 games with talented team is your threshold then we shouldve kept Miles and had 2 great recruiters instead of 1.
Right back at you buddy. If your threshold is a sure thing who is guaranteed to be better than Miles, and winning the west even as an interim isn't good enough for you, then this hire is going to severely disappoint you. Texas, a true blue blood, had to settle for Charlie Strong. There's a very good chance that we're going to be competing against not one blue blood but three. Is it really so crazy if he wins to give Orgeron two years, let him recruit his arse off, and see what the coaching landscape looks like? I'm just not convinced LSU will be able to do much better than O, and if we hire Fedora I'm gonna burn my degree in the quad.
Posted on 10/20/16 at 4:33 pm to TheDrunkenTigah
quote:
Texas, a true blue blood, had to settle for Charlie Strong
Did texas settle for a position coach whose sole hc job was a massive failure?
Coach O winning with team says more about Miles than coach O. There is nothing coach o can do in 10 games to prove he deserves the lsu job.
Posted on 10/20/16 at 5:03 pm to Rickdaddy4188
you keep saying no school wanted him to be there HC or DC. that is far from the truth. 2014 Arkansas and Rutgers came calling for him to be there DC. Syracuse wanted him to be there HC in which he came out and said the only way he would leave LSU is for a top 5 HC job because he was happy where he was and one day his dream job was to be the HC at LSU. at the time i laughed at the guy but today he is in a position to be the HC at LSU. "Maybe"
Posted on 10/20/16 at 5:06 pm to BayouCowboy
quote:
Yeah we got that. Belichek and Saban were fired at Cleveland after a 38-46 stint. Imagine that?
He at least went to the playoffs. CEO didn't sniff anything close to a winning season.
Posted on 10/20/16 at 5:10 pm to Smalls
Whats wrong with Coach O going to a smaller school building it up. Then come back to LSU and dominate.
Posted on 10/20/16 at 5:18 pm to boweswi05
quote:
Whats wrong with Coach O going to a smaller school building it up. Then come back to LSU and dominate.
I have no idea. We're bidding against ourselves here if they're giving him serious consideration right now.
Let the better coaches say no first. If we whiff on everyone believe me, Orgeron will still be there.
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