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re: Michael Bradley's performance versus Germany compared to France's midfielders
Posted on 7/8/14 at 11:20 am to Iona Fan Man
Posted on 7/8/14 at 11:20 am to Iona Fan Man
quote:
I don't buy that someone else couldn't do his job.
Mix possibly could have done the attacking part of Bradley's job better overall than Bradley did, but no one seriously believes Mix could have done the two-way work Bradley did. We don't have a plethora of gifted central attacking midfielders.
Your mention of Yedlin for that position is a good example of why no one should be responding to your nonsense.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 11:22 am to Stewie Griffin
quote:
Watch again. The number of long, diagonal balls he played perfectly into feet (like Yedlin, who do you think got him the ball in all those great positions) was astounding.
You need to watch the game again. I did a play by play on his contributions on page for on just the first half. He made just as many bad passes in the offensive half than he did good ones.
quote:
He also covered 10 miles for the game and completed 90 passes, as many as Witsel and Fellaini combined.
I love that people keep bringing up this stat like it automatically means that he had a good game. Running around more isn't always a good thing. I.E. ball chasing.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 11:23 am to SUB
quote:
Running around more isn't always a good thing.
Considering he's a box to box midfielder...yea, it pretty much is.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 11:24 am to Tennessee Jed
quote:
Central defenders are ALWAYS among the slowest players on the team.
Well that's not true at all.
it makes sense....guys in mid are tall to defend against headers
Posted on 7/8/14 at 11:28 am to thesoccerfanjax
quote:
Considering he's a box to box midfielder...yea, it pretty much is.
Ok, I get what you are saying...center mids run a lot. But to take that stat to prove how good he is...it's really dumb. I'm sure he ran more than any one else in the Ghana game but that doesn't mean he had a good game. It means he is in shape. It's fair to use the stat in combination with other stats.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 11:31 am to SUB
...
Serious question, how familiar were you with MB before this WC? One of his stand out traits has always been his iron lungs and non stop work rate. So yes, it does need to be factored in to how well he played (and he didn't play all that well) since it's a necessary trait for ANY player in the center. Again, he is not a true AM. He is a box to box midfielder which is largely based on work ethic so of course that needs to be factored into his grade.
Serious question, how familiar were you with MB before this WC? One of his stand out traits has always been his iron lungs and non stop work rate. So yes, it does need to be factored in to how well he played (and he didn't play all that well) since it's a necessary trait for ANY player in the center. Again, he is not a true AM. He is a box to box midfielder which is largely based on work ethic so of course that needs to be factored into his grade.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 11:33 am to SUB
quote:
It's fair to use the stat in combination with other stats.
As with Just about every other stat in this thread. No one stat signifies a good or bad performance and i think that is why this distance traveled stat is mentioned. It is one of the most noticeable positive stats that gets left out by the MB haters. They seem to ignore that one of the most important aspects his role required him to run and that he did that part the best he could have possibly done.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 11:33 am to SUB
quote:
I'm sure he ran more than any one else in the Ghana game but that doesn't mean he had a good game
I agree. That stat alone only tells me that he has a high work rate, but not that he was productive.
I personally think that his tracking back and helping to close down passing lanes and his movement helped cause a lot of turnovers and fizzle out the opponents attacking play. Those are things that you won't find in any stats, but generally players with high work rates are given credit for.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 11:34 am to petar
quote:
He just circled one guy and not 3 when pointing out our center mids... As to say MB was our only CM
mid is yalls term
halfback=righthalf, lefthalf, centerhalf
mid=rightmid,leftmid,centermid
Posted on 7/8/14 at 11:35 am to FunkasaurusReb
quote:
I personally think that his tracking back and helping to close down passing lanes and his movement helped cause a lot of turnovers and fizzle out the opponents attacking play
And helped open up the offense by making runs into space creating other space or helped increase possession by making runs to the ball. etc.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 11:37 am to thesoccerfanjax
quote:
Serious question, how familiar were you with MB before this WC? One of his stand out traits has always been his iron lungs and non stop work rate. So yes, it does need to be factored in to how well he played (and he didn't play all that well) since it's a necessary trait for ANY player in the center. Again, he is not a true AM. He is a box to box midfielder which is largely based on work ethic so of course that needs to be factored into his grade.
Work rate should be a given for Michael Bradley. It's setting the bar extremely low to grade him on how far he ran.
Again with the "have you even watched MB" stuff.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 11:39 am to petar
quote:
It is one of the most noticeable positive stats that gets left out by the MB haters.
I mentioned it.....he trots around at like half jogging speed constantly. He has a small gravitational pull to the ball....he doesn't close fast or challenge...he gently paces toward the ball and then turns and follows it at same speed when the opponent passes it away.
He doesn't jump passing lanes, he doesn't burst...he just trots...and picks up steps on the FITBIT.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 11:39 am to uway
Never in this thread have I said he played well. But when covering ground is a huge part of his role, yes it has to be taken into account.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 11:39 am to SUB
quote:
You need to watch the game again. I did a play by play on his contributions on page for on just the first half. He made just as many bad passes in the offensive half than he did good ones.
I read it. Bad passes in the opponent's third happen, literally, all the time, to all players. It doesn't mean he had a bad game.
quote:
I love that people keep bringing up this stat like it automatically means that he had a good game. Running around more isn't always a good thing. I.E. ball chasing.
By itself, it's not an indicator of a good game. Combined with all the rest he did, it is.
Like I said, who got Yedlin the ball in all those fantastic positions? Cameron did some, but Bradley did more. When he has runners, he's so much better.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 11:40 am to petar
quote:
And helped open up the offense by making runs into space creating other space or helped increase possession by making runs to the ball. etc.
Which is something Jones had going for him when he did go forward that Bradley didn't have in the first couple games, was another player in the area to make those kinds of dummy runs or to draw defenders away.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 11:40 am to Iona Fan Man
quote:
halfback=righthalf, lefthalf, centerhalf
mid=rightmid,leftmid,centermid
Thanks, Matt Christopher, but your 50s terminology is outdated.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 11:45 am to Iona Fan Man
quote:
halfback=righthalf, lefthalf, centerhalf
Half back is an antiquated term. It once referred to the three players who played behind the forward line in a formation called the W-M. It is no longer used. Center half was the central half back that eventually pushed between the fullbacks into a primarily defensive role. Sweepers are rarely used as they once were, as the game evolved away from that. The 3 man back line can employ a sweeper, but not like the liberos of old.
Fullback usually refers to the wide defender in a 4 man back line. Wingback is the term for the wide defender in a three man/five man back line. Center mids refer specifically to the players in the center of the field. Outside midfielders are either wingers, who try to go to the byline to make opportunities through one on one play, or wide midfielders, who try to work opportunities through overlaps and 2 v 1 mismatches with the fullback.
This is the common parlance of formations now.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 11:47 am to Iona Fan Man
quote:
Kashonly
You're way off base, man. You at least seem interested in soccer, which is good, but I recommend you do a little more observing and little less analysis.
Don't mistake our arguing for us just being assholes. We're trying to tell you your analysis of situations is, to put it bluntly, dead wrong. It takes a while to understand how positions and player roles work. I've watched a lot of soccer over the last 4 years and still have a lot to learn myself so it definitely doesn't come overnight.
Posted on 7/8/14 at 11:47 am to Iona Fan Man
quote:
he trots around at like half jogging speed constantly
Click this link, and watch him track back and stop the counter. It should link to the right time, but if not, fast forward to 34:43.
LINK
Posted on 7/8/14 at 11:48 am to Iona Fan Man
quote:
Work rate should be a given for Michael Bradley. It's setting the bar extremely low to grade him on how far he ran.
Again with the "have you even watched MB" stuff.
I think it should be a combination thing. To leave a work rate out is foolish of any player. No matter if its consistent to his career numbers. That would be like not considering Xavi's passing ability in rating him. Granted it should not be the only stat. but to belittle it like Kashonly does is foolish.
quote:
.he doesn't close fast or challenge..
A lot of times a CF/CAM's defensive role is exactly this. To push play to one side or whatever else a strategy would call for. To expect him to be on a full sprint is a little ignorant. No CM sprints the entire game. That is impossible, so not only do you want him to run 13 Km per game now you want him to sprint 3/4 of it.
Aggressive defending is not the only way to play defense on a related note. keeping your structure is another focus of defending at times and not playing aggressively when its not needed is part of this defensive theory.
This post was edited on 7/8/14 at 11:51 am
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