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re: How the hell can we be good at basically all other sports
Posted on 10/11/17 at 1:02 am to crazy4lsu
Posted on 10/11/17 at 1:02 am to crazy4lsu
Problem is all sports have pay to play element now except for football.
AAU in basketball and travel leagues in baseball.
I just want to be competitive in soccer and want MLS to be legit. That’s all I want.
Maybe in my lifetime.
AAU in basketball and travel leagues in baseball.
I just want to be competitive in soccer and want MLS to be legit. That’s all I want.
Maybe in my lifetime.
2
Posted on 10/11/17 at 1:05 am to okietiger
I'm sure it's been mentioned in this thread, but it all starts with our lack of youth coaching.
Yeah, we have a lot of kids playing soccer in this country, doesn't matter though when their coach is their dad who is coaching them only to bridge the gap from football to baseball season.
Yeah, we have a lot of kids playing soccer in this country, doesn't matter though when their coach is their dad who is coaching them only to bridge the gap from football to baseball season.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 1:09 am to okietiger
quote:
okietiger
Oh, I'm not mad at you. This debate just always seems to spring up.
I mean just look at guys like Xavi, Iniesta, Pirlo, etc. None of these guys are elite athletes. Athleticism doesn't hurt, but technical ability is what's going to really make you rise to the top.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 1:16 am to jackwoods4
This may be weird but soccer is a lot like baseball...
Think about how many fat guys are very good pitchers at a late age in MLB. Or position players that can still hit way past their prime (David Ortiz). These are very specific skill sets. Much like soccer.
Man this is a strange thread
Think about how many fat guys are very good pitchers at a late age in MLB. Or position players that can still hit way past their prime (David Ortiz). These are very specific skill sets. Much like soccer.
Man this is a strange thread
Posted on 10/11/17 at 1:20 am to okietiger
Soccer is different in that you have to be in superb shape to play at a high level, as the moment your legs go, and you can't keep up, it's over. You can see it happen to some players who used their athleticism to mask technical shortcomings, or players who do not train as well as they once did.
It's just that your athletic skills are secondary to your technique, but when you get to the top level, athleticism might keep you at the top level for a longer period of time. Or give you an edge from the other super talented player.
It's just that your athletic skills are secondary to your technique, but when you get to the top level, athleticism might keep you at the top level for a longer period of time. Or give you an edge from the other super talented player.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 1:24 am to Broski
A lot of interesting perspective in some of the previous posts. I can tell you this, the American model allows for "travel/select" teams and JV/High School teams while other countries have true developmental clubs that sign kids at a young age and develop them in the club model.
In regards to the athletic skill level, I can tell you this -- I see a good amount of top level athletes choosing soccer as their sport of choice at a young age, and when they show up for tryouts at the club level (I'm talking middle school age here), only 8 or 9 kids show up because kids have opted for school sports that are not pay for play... primarily football and basketball in my town.
These kids will stick to soccer as their sport of choice, being forced to play up in age at the club level, an enjoy playing for their HS team. And that is the end game for US developmental soccer outside of large metropolitan areas. A lot of kids are not allowed to develop to their potential in this model, and it will never compare to other countries that have a true developmental model.
Trust me on my opinion... I've watched travel soccer for years, and have discussed the American mode of development with players from England, Scotland and Ireland who signed with clubs at a young age who ended up playing college soccer here in the states. The American attempt at development pales in comparison. The result is what you watched tonight.
In regards to the athletic skill level, I can tell you this -- I see a good amount of top level athletes choosing soccer as their sport of choice at a young age, and when they show up for tryouts at the club level (I'm talking middle school age here), only 8 or 9 kids show up because kids have opted for school sports that are not pay for play... primarily football and basketball in my town.
These kids will stick to soccer as their sport of choice, being forced to play up in age at the club level, an enjoy playing for their HS team. And that is the end game for US developmental soccer outside of large metropolitan areas. A lot of kids are not allowed to develop to their potential in this model, and it will never compare to other countries that have a true developmental model.
Trust me on my opinion... I've watched travel soccer for years, and have discussed the American mode of development with players from England, Scotland and Ireland who signed with clubs at a young age who ended up playing college soccer here in the states. The American attempt at development pales in comparison. The result is what you watched tonight.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 2:22 am to okietiger
College soccer just needs to get better
Where is that dude spewing that shite from a couple years ago
Where is that dude spewing that shite from a couple years ago
Posted on 10/11/17 at 7:00 am to okietiger
Football has pay to play. All sports do now at all ages. The most expensive, public school, in our area to pay to play sports is $650 a year just for football.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 9:35 am to BleedPurpleGold
quote:
Is the reason we're bad at tennis because Lebron decided to go the basketball route?
I couldn't imagine lining up across from Lebron and trying to return his serve. His speed, agility, and strength, if groomed from a young age would allow him to dominate Rafa. I played tennis through high school, and we played schools like Scotlandville, and they weren't fundamental at all, but their ability to get to the ball made it harder to get easy points than playing against some of the technically skilled players.
That's kind of my point, and I think Riseup made it better, think if OBJ stuck with soccer instead of the NFL. You mean to tell me that he couldn't be world class. I get that technique trumps pure athleticism in soccer, but better athletes naturally can have better technique. If Antonio Brown or OBJ or Kyrie Irving started kicking a soccer ball at 3 or 4, I have no doubt in my mind they would be as technically gifted as ANY world class player. Part of being an athlete is having a mixture of physical skills and mental/technical skills. Yedlin is a great example of someone with blazing speed who could have probably played college football, at least at the FCS level as a return man, but has worked to develop technical skills to go with his athleticism. There are a ton of Yedlins in the US that aren't okaying soccer right now.
To fix soccer in the US, we need to find better ways to get more athletic kids in front of better coaches who can teach kids fundamentals to complement their athleticism.
This post was edited on 10/11/17 at 9:42 am
Posted on 10/11/17 at 11:36 am to lionward2014
OBJ would have been badass at soccer.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 11:40 am to okietiger
quote:
OBJ would have been badass at soccer.
Nah, because our youth coaches wouldn't have been able to adequately develop him.
We have the athletes, we don't have the coaching.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 11:41 am to Broski
Exactly
We hardly ever play a team more athletic than we are
But often run into sides way more technical
We hardly ever play a team more athletic than we are
But often run into sides way more technical
Posted on 10/11/17 at 11:45 am to lionward2014
quote:
I think Riseup made it better, think if OBJ stuck with soccer instead of the NFL. You mean to tell me that he couldn't be world class. I get that technique trumps pure athleticism in soccer, but better athletes naturally can have better technique.
Oh my fricking god. It's like you people have never watched the same fast English winger dribble the ball out of bounds 200 times a season. Mother of frick our technical training would have ensured that OBJ would never have reached the level required to be a game changer. There is literally a genre of English winger who are exactly what you people want. You are blinded by this athleticism argument, despite literally all the evidence against you. It doesn't make any fricking sense that you insane people keep repeating this lie, and because retards keep believing it, nothing at the youth level will change. For the love of frick we've destroyed the careers of many of our athletes who have superior size and speed by not giving them the technical ability to use the ball in tight spaces, which is what is required at the highest level.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 11:46 am to lionward2014
quote:
If Antonio Brown or OBJ or Kyrie Irving started kicking a soccer ball at 3 or 4, I have no doubt in my mind they would be as technically gifted as ANY world class player.
Well, you should, because they wouldn't have been able to be as technically gifted with the coaching they would've gotten over here.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 11:56 am to WarSlamEagle
I literally made it a point in my post to say we need better technical coaching.
For as stubborn as some of y'all are saying the "we have great athletes" crowd is, the "athletes don't matter only technique" crowd is too. Why wouldn't you won't world class athletes with world class skills? We need better coaching and skill development, but just think about how much more deadly a bunch of goofy bastards could be if they had world class athleticism to match world class technical abilities.
quote:
athletic kids in front of better coaches who can teach kids fundamentals
For as stubborn as some of y'all are saying the "we have great athletes" crowd is, the "athletes don't matter only technique" crowd is too. Why wouldn't you won't world class athletes with world class skills? We need better coaching and skill development, but just think about how much more deadly a bunch of goofy bastards could be if they had world class athleticism to match world class technical abilities.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 12:04 pm to lionward2014
quote:
Why wouldn't you won't world class athletes with world class skills?
No one is arguing against these mythical creatures in here.
We're just saying that technical skill trumps athleticism in soccer.
American soccer's problem isn't athleticism, even if Julio Jones and Antonio Brown and any other uber athletic wide receiver in the NFL is playing football. It's technical skill.
Sure, in a perfect fantasy land, we're able to mesh world-class technical skills with world-class athletes. A bunch of Cristiano Ronaldos running around for the red, white and blue.
But there's a reason our best player is a teenager who is 5-foot-8 and weighs less than a buck-40 and not Jozy Altidore, who has the athleticism and build of an NFL running back.
Some of y'all are focusing on the wrong stuff when less superior athletes with better skills are beating America all around the world and even in CONCACAF.
This post was edited on 10/11/17 at 12:05 pm
Posted on 10/11/17 at 12:05 pm to WarSlamEagle
quote:
Well, you should, because they wouldn't have been able to be as technically gifted with the coaching they would've gotten over here.
Frankly, with the way European coaches misuse athletic players consistently, there is a high likelihood that even with supreme technical skills and athletic ability players wouldn't make it. Thierry Henry, who I think is the prototype for when people talk about players who are both technical and athletic, nearly wasted his career as a wide player, as he was at Juventus, until he was converted into a striker.
The fact of the matter is that a robust midfield possession game is still paramount to fielding a successful international team. Portugal had it with Carvalho and Moutinho, and were able to bypass the midfield press with incisive passing. Here Carvalho would at best be a CB and Moutinho would never get a look, if we went by athletic ability alone.
According to the book Soccernomics, a professional soccer player needs to run as fast as 7 m/s, which translates to a 14 second hundred meters. That is a time a middle schooler could reach.
None of the teams post-2002 that have won something have relied on athleticism at all. In the possession era, technical players who can negotiate tight spaces is paramount. Having athletic players helps quite a bit with pressing and counter-attacking, but you still need to break down the low block, and the only ways we've seen that the low block is consistently broken is through the possession game or through set-pieces.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 12:06 pm to crazy4lsu
How does it change? How can we get the right coaches in to America (or groom them)?
Posted on 10/11/17 at 12:08 pm to lionward2014
quote:
Why wouldn't you won't world class athletes with world class skills? We need better coaching and skill development, but just think about how much more deadly a bunch of goofy bastards could be if they had world class athleticism to match world class technical abilities.
Because speed and strength are only so important if you don't have technical ability. I've broken down why technique is so important in this era. Maybe pre-2005, before the offside rule was changed, you could argue that you needed size and speed to play, but that is no longer true. We aren't going to win anything with world class athletes with average technique. We can win a lot with average athletes with world class technique.
None of the best players in the world, save for the Ronaldos, have particularly impressive athletic stats. But they are the best technicians of the ball.
Posted on 10/11/17 at 12:09 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
We aren't going to win anything with world class athletes with average technique. We can win a lot with average athletes with world class technique.
Bingo.
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