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Message
re: FFP - Man City and PSG Punishment
Posted on 5/6/14 at 1:08 pm to StraightCashHomey21
Posted on 5/6/14 at 1:08 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
for sure but its not out of control spending. If two of them pan out and they get bought by a big club down the line it def works out.
What United youth products get bought by a big club? It's usually they get sold to mid-tier clubs once they show how average they are.
2
Posted on 5/6/14 at 1:10 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Man U have paid above or at market value for most of their purchases
yea Mata and big afro
and 15 million for Ashley Young was a stretch but other than that not really.
Phil Jones is only 22 and has time to get better. He got worse under Moyes, alot of our young guys regressed under Moyes.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 1:11 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
They aren't frugal by any means, nor are they particularly profligate, just like City and Chelsea.
I would say they have been much less profligate than Chelsea and City, actually.
2008-2013 Transfer Market Net Spend
City: £407,150,000 (614% more than United spent)
Chelsea: £229,200,000 (302% more than United spent)
Liverpool: £60,100,000 (5% more than United spent)
United: £57,050,000
Spurs: £6,150,000 (United spent 827% more)
Arsenal: -£31,600,000 United spent > 5705% more)
Newcastle: -£38,300,000 (United spent > 5705% more)
Posted on 5/6/14 at 1:11 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
What United youth products get bought by a big club?
Becks
then CR7 was bought at a young age and was sold to Madrid for big bucks.
quote:
It's usually they get sold to mid-tier clubs once they show how average they are.
If its youth system players its still revenue earned.
This post was edited on 5/6/14 at 1:12 pm
Posted on 5/6/14 at 1:16 pm to crazy4lsu
United finished fourth in the Prem in net spend over the near 10-year period from 2004-2013, spent far less (net) than City and Chelsea, and won a hell of a lot of trophies during that time.
2004-2013 Transfer Market Net Spend
Chelsea: £524,500,000 (325% more than United spent)
City: £434,820,000 (252% more than United spent)
Liverpool: £168,800,000 (37% more than United spent)
United: £123,400,000
Spurs: £100,850,000 (United spent 22% more)
Newcastle: £1,900,000 (United spent 6,395% more)
Arsenal: -£23,570,000 (United spent > 12,300% more)
2004-2013 Transfer Market Net Spend
Chelsea: £524,500,000 (325% more than United spent)
City: £434,820,000 (252% more than United spent)
Liverpool: £168,800,000 (37% more than United spent)
United: £123,400,000
Spurs: £100,850,000 (United spent 22% more)
Newcastle: £1,900,000 (United spent 6,395% more)
Arsenal: -£23,570,000 (United spent > 12,300% more)
This post was edited on 5/6/14 at 1:18 pm
Posted on 5/6/14 at 1:17 pm to StraightCashHomey21
17 mil for Jones is above market value. 30 mil for Ferdinand. 30 mil for Veron. 19 mil for Van Nistelrooy. 12 mil for a young Ronaldo. The list goes on. Let's not pretend that they've been frugal. They haven't. They have a lot of money and spend where they see fit. Hence they, especially Fergie, pay whatever amount to secure their target. Before Chelsea bought Shevchenko United broke the British transfer record in consecutive seasons. Some teams can play the holier than thou card in terms of finances, but Man U isn't one of those teams. They are as much responsible for the massive rise in transfer fees as Chelsea and Man City are.
This post was edited on 5/6/14 at 1:17 pm
Posted on 5/6/14 at 1:19 pm to PeepleHeppinBidness
quote:
I would say they have been much less profligate than Chelsea and City, actually.
Chelsea after the Torres deal has been pretty reasonable in the market. But both teams spent massively to buy whole squads in less than three seasons, something United didn't have to do.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 1:20 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
Becks
So one in twenty years?
Posted on 5/6/14 at 1:25 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
17 mil for Jones is above market value
he's only 22 we have no idea yet
quote:
30 mil for Ferdinand
good buy
quote:
30 mil for Veron.
bad buy but that was a longggggggggggg time ago
quote:
19 mil for Van Nistelrooy
great buy and made money off selling him to Madrid
quote:
12 mil for a young Ronaldo
great value and made a huge turn around on selling him.
quote:
The list goes on. Let's not pretend that they've been frugal.
No it really doesn't compared to other clubs out of control spending. He don't go on spending sprees every summer we fill holes with players.
quote:
Before Chelsea bought Shevchenko United broke the British transfer record in consecutive seasons. Some teams can play the holier than thou card in terms of finances, but Man U isn't one of those teams. They are as much responsible for the massive rise in transfer fees as Chelsea and Man City are.
Disagree, you pointed out a couple examples over a span more than 10 years. We don't operate at a loss like other teams do. We just don't go on absurd spending sprees on players over and over.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 1:26 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
So one in twenty years?
we could have sold the whole lot of the class of 92 for big bucks
We made money off other players we bought and didn't over pay for.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 1:28 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
12 mil for a young Ronaldo.
The club made 68M pounds on his transfer. We also won a lot while we had him. I would say that purchase represented good value.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 1:32 pm to PeepleHeppinBidness
quote:
The club made 68M pounds on his transfer. We also won a lot while we had him. I would say that purchase represented good value.
The only player we have taken a bad loss on was Veron in the last 10 to 15 years.
Berbatov was worth every cent. Not sure how much we got back for him when we sold him.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 1:36 pm to StraightCashHomey21
We are starting three players from the youth system today.
and 4 players we bought relativity young.
De Gea was worth every fricking penny
This is nothing new at United. Its our philosophy which is night and day from the likes of Man City. Man City's youth system is really about to be put to the test.
and 4 players we bought relativity young.
De Gea was worth every fricking penny
This is nothing new at United. Its our philosophy which is night and day from the likes of Man City. Man City's youth system is really about to be put to the test.
This post was edited on 5/6/14 at 1:39 pm
Posted on 5/6/14 at 1:38 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
De Gea was worth every fricking penny
definitely. don't be ashamed of all the money you spend man. embrace it.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 1:40 pm to theOG
quote:
definitely. don't be ashamed of all the money you spend man. embrace it.
and when we probably will sell him to Real or Barca down the line for more money it will look good on the books. Its how you do business.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 1:40 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
he's only 22 we have no idea yet
He was 19 when you bought him. 17 mil is nearly always over market value for a CB.
quote:
No it really doesn't compared to other clubs out of control spending. He don't go on spending sprees every summer we fill holes with players.
Man U, Barca, and Real Madrid set the market because they are always flush with cash and will pay ridiculous sums for their targets. Do you really think Abramovich would come in and spend upwards of a couple hundred million if he didn't see other teams doing it first? Don't be naive. Man U is as much to blame for FFP and the absolutely silly prices that get bandied about for players as Chelsea and City. You have higher revenue streams and a massive stadium, but their wouldn't be the anxiety to spend as teams like City and Chelsea have done if Man U wasn't setting the market to favor those flush with cash, pricing out the incentives for focusing on infrastructure and the academy system, then we wouldn't be in the suicidal position we are in where we would need oversight. You aren't operating at a loss only because you were the first to perfect your revenue model. You're spending hasn't been insane because of having the most fortunate class of youth academy players that the world has seen up until Guardiola's Barca teams. Now that the production line is drying up and producing ridiculously average players Man U will spend more and more.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 1:44 pm to theOG
quote:
definitely. don't be ashamed of all the money you spend man. embrace it.
nicely done.Posted on 5/6/14 at 1:46 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Do you really think Abramovich would come in and spend upwards of a couple hundred million if he didn't see other teams doing it first?
When does Man United ever do this in the transfer market in one summer? Ive seen it like once.
quote:
Man U is as much to blame for FFP and the absolutely silly prices that get bandied about for players as Chelsea and City
How so we don't spend spend spend spend every summer having a new rotation of players year in and year out.
quote:
You have higher revenue streams and a massive stadium, but their wouldn't be the anxiety to spend as teams like City and Chelsea have done if Man U wasn't setting the market to favor those flush with cash, pricing out the incentives for focusing on infrastructure and the academy system
So blame us for investing in the future before other did.
quote:
You aren't operating at a loss only because you were the first to perfect your revenue model. You're spending hasn't been insane because of having the most fortunate class of youth academy players that the world has seen up until Guardiola's Barca teams.
Yup our fault again for doing it the right way before others.
quote:
Now that the production line is drying up and producing ridiculously average players Man U will spend more and more.
We have no idea if this is true or not esp with our youth teams always being near the top.
Posted on 5/6/14 at 1:57 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
When does Man United ever do this in the transfer market in one summer? Ive seen it like once.
You mean like this past season where they spend something like 60 mil? You are missing my whole point. Man U broke the British transfer record a couple of times in the 90's alone, with Keane, Cole, and Yorke, and then broke it again in consecutive seasons, doubling the fee for Ferdinand and Veron. When a new owner comes in and sees he can simply buy a team and reach the top, that's what he is going to do because he has no incentive to invest in something as speculative as a youth system. Man U was a massive part of the culture that allowed for Chelsea and City to happen. That is what you don't seem to understand. Despite the fact they did it the "right way" they still fostered a market where those flush with cash, no matter how it was made, could set the market, making it a seller's market where we continually saw ridiculous fee after ridiculous fee.
It's real rich for Man U fans to come in and say that they've been doing it the right way when they were a massive part of the original problem. Barca, Real and the Italian teams were too. Man U has been insulated by a stronger British economy as well, which is why we don't see Italian teams spending massive sums of money anymore.
quote:
We have no idea if this is true or not esp with our youth teams always being near the top.
If Cleverly and Welbeck are the standard then yes we can say they are ridiculously average.
This post was edited on 5/6/14 at 1:58 pm
Posted on 5/6/14 at 2:04 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
You mean like this past season where they spend something like 60 mil?
Moyes was an idiot who got desperate and hustled. He is no longer in charge.
quote:
You are missing my whole point. Man U broke the British transfer record a couple of times in the 90's alone, with Keane, Cole, and Yorke, and then broke it again in consecutive seasons
The point is one big buy a summer doesn't push FFP rules. The problem is when city buys 3 or 4 of these types of players every year.
quote:
When a new owner comes in and sees he can simply buy a team and reach the top, that's what he is going to do because he has no incentive to invest in something as speculative as a youth system
We still used our youth system and bought players. Hopefully these teams will now as well.
quote:
It's real rich for Man U fans to come in and say that they've been doing it the right way when they were a massive part of the original problem. Barca, Real and the Italian teams were too. Man U has been insulated by a stronger British economy as well, which is why we don't see Italian teams spending massive sums of money anymore.
Buying one or two players a summer even if just over value but not a crazy fee esp ones who pan out, is not the same as buying 4 or 5 every summer.
quote:
If Cleverly and Welbeck are the standard then yes we can say they are ridiculously average.
Welbeck has not been bad at all this year. Clevs yea he sucks
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