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Message
re: WSJ major opinion piece on film industry welfare--quotes Jindal
Posted on 6/21/14 at 8:45 pm to BBONDS25
Posted on 6/21/14 at 8:45 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
Shouldn't it be a pretty straight forward number. You are certainly passionate about the issue. It would seem obvious you would want to know the actual numbers. Unless of course it isnt really about the numbers....
If I give you 2012 you will want 2013. Then I have to explain the whole credits outstanding thing too which are the credits sold but not redeemed.
Here is the simplest number--in 2012 the state issued $198.6 million in credits---$27 million were used in 2012 for payment of taxes by recipients leaving around $170 million that were either 1) redeemed for cash by the state 2) sold to other people or 3) held for future sale or use.
In 2013 and projected in 2014 the credits were over $200 million the majority of those will also be either redeemed by the state for cash or sold to other taxpayers to use in lieu sending the state money. The state actually saves 15% if they redeem them for cash.
The amount of film tax credits was roughly equal to all the corporate income tax (not franchise tax) collected by the state and was roughly equal to 9% of all personal income tax collect.
To put in it the plainest and simplest form--we give the film makers one dollar out of every 11 dollars the state collects in personal income taxes.
This post was edited on 6/21/14 at 8:47 pm
2
Posted on 6/21/14 at 8:50 pm to I B Freeman
And you don't have a clue as to what you just said. 
Posted on 6/21/14 at 9:00 pm to OTIS2
quote:
And you don't have a clue as to what you just said
I know exactly what I said. You need disprove it or leave it be.
Otis you are lightweight cowardly hack if you can't answer the question I posed to you earlier.
This post was edited on 6/21/14 at 9:02 pm
Posted on 6/21/14 at 9:05 pm to I B Freeman
Moon, you are dumb. The public knows you're dumb. 2+2 befuddles the crap out of you. 
Posted on 6/21/14 at 9:08 pm to OTIS2
quote:
The public knows you're dumb.
Is IP Freely really Moon Buffoon?
Posted on 6/21/14 at 9:20 pm to Godfather1
Yes. Zach nailed him.
This post was edited on 6/21/14 at 9:22 pm
Posted on 6/21/14 at 9:31 pm to I B Freeman
Pick a year. I don't care. How many checks were written from the state? What was the aggregate amount of those checks?
This post was edited on 6/21/14 at 9:32 pm
Posted on 6/21/14 at 9:38 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
Pick a year. I don't care. How many checks were written from the state? What was the aggregate amount of those checks?
Explain why it matters that I differentiate the money paid directly from the state from the money paid by other taxpayers to the filmmakers?
I have already told you the approximate amount of that in 2012--$170 million. I know that in 2012 the state wrote about $40 million in checks for 2012 credits but I do not know what they wrote for 2011 credits in 2012 or what they wrote in 2013 for 2012 credits.
I know the credits in 2013 totaled $251 million.
This post was edited on 6/21/14 at 9:41 pm
Posted on 6/21/14 at 9:46 pm to I B Freeman
You do realize tax payers saved money by purchasing the credits, don't you? (No you don't)
Posted on 6/21/14 at 9:48 pm to OTIS2
quote:
Moon, you are dumb. The public knows you're dumb. 2+2 befuddles the crap out of you
Otis2 you simply have no argument to counter a thing I said and you want to insult me?? How does that logic work?
You want to tell why we shouldn't give all businesses the 30% transferrable, cash redeemable tax credit the filmmakers get like I ask a long time ago?
Posted on 6/21/14 at 9:50 pm to OTIS2
quote:
You do realize tax payers saved money by purchasing the credits, don't you? (No you don't
Let's be sure everyone is clear on what you are saying.
You support the filmmaker tax credit program because you can buy these credits at a small (less than 15% because the state will buy them for a 15% discount) discount?
Posted on 6/21/14 at 9:52 pm to I B Freeman
Well. If you whine about checks being written to film companies...it may be relevant how many checks were written and how big those checks were. My gut feeling is the state didn't write any checks. You have evidence to the contrary?
Posted on 6/21/14 at 9:52 pm to Zach
quote:
You need to go there, Moon
Who is Moon?
Posted on 6/21/14 at 9:58 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
My gut feeling is the state didn't write any checks. You have evidence to the contrary?
Can you not read my post?? Why do you keep harping on this. It is a fact.
I told you there were at least $40 million written in 2012 and possibly more since they could have written checks for 2011 credits that were not a part of the auditor's report AND there could have been checks written in 2013 or even 2014 for 2012 credits that were not in the audit.
BUT THE FACT remains it was a $170 million revenue impact whether the state wrote the checks to the filmmakers or taxpayers diverted the taxes they would have paid the state to the filmmakers by writing checks for the credits to the filmmakers.
Posted on 6/21/14 at 10:01 pm to I B Freeman
Ok. So 40mm is the number? That's what the state actually paid out of its coffers. Now we can determine if the state made 40mm from the industry?
Posted on 6/21/14 at 10:05 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
Ok. So 40mm is the number? That's what the state actually paid out of its coffers. Now we can determine if the state made 40mm from the industry?
BBONDS you are too dense to argue with. The number for 2012 is $170 million. For 2013 it something like $250 million.
If I don't pay $10000 in taxes because I bought $10000 in film tax credits from a filmmaker how does that differ from a direct payment from the state??
This post was edited on 6/21/14 at 10:06 pm
Posted on 6/21/14 at 10:22 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
o 40mm is the number?
40mm is not the number. The tax credit program is an accounting scheme set up to bypass the normal process of legislative appropriations. They could technically "spend" nothing and it would still be a subsidy. They're counting on simple people to assume that tax credits are the same as a tax break which is a just lessening the tax burden of a specific industry or individual entity. They're totally different things and tax credits go way beyond just not collecting tax. They're a mechanism of wealth redistribution.
Put it to you this way: I will owe $4k in state taxes this yea r. How about we work out a deal where I promise to pay $10k in taxes instead and you give me $5 billion in tax credits in return.
billions of dollars is injected into the states economy because I will spend it. Plus, the state gets an extra $6k from me. The state technically pays NOTHING. That's right, its of no cost to the state.
Tell me why this is a bad idea.
This post was edited on 6/21/14 at 10:36 pm
Posted on 6/21/14 at 11:24 pm to Asgard Device
I am fully aware of the difference between deductions and credits. I am simply wondering what the number is that the state paid. That is the only relevant number. If the state paid 40mm and it brought in more...it is a positive. If it brought in less it isn't. What are the numbers? Why do you all seem so scared to actually discuss numbers.
Posted on 6/21/14 at 11:35 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
I am simply wondering what the number is that the state paid. That is the only relevant number.
Sorry, but if that's how you feel, then you're just plain dumb.
Can I have my $5 billion in tax credits now? I will sell them on the market so the state will pay ZERO dollars. According to you it'll be irrelevant.
Posted on 6/22/14 at 3:30 am to Asgard Device
As dumb as you you may want me to be. All I want to know is how much the state actually sent out . You can call me dumb all you want. It only makes you look silly.
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