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re: Why is the US scared to charge the Oklahoma beheader with terrorism?
Posted on 10/1/14 at 10:29 am to cwill
Posted on 10/1/14 at 10:29 am to cwill
quote:
"Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics: Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law; Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.
LINK
quote:
18 U.S.C. § 2331 defines "international terrorism" and "domestic terrorism" for purposes of Chapter 113B of the Code, entitled "Terrorism”:
1
Posted on 10/1/14 at 10:31 am to NC_Tigah
quote:Didn't the FBI investigate this and deem that he didn't have additional ties? Thus the murder charge?
I'd say insofar as terrorism implies possibility of more widespread organizations or acts, its designation involves a more appropriate investigative body, the FBI, in pursuing the possibility.
I could be wrong
Posted on 10/1/14 at 10:42 am to Pilot Tiger
quote:
Didn't the FBI investigate this and deem that he didn't have additional ties? Thus the murder charge?
No additional ties are necessary to sustain a charge of terrorism.
And he has additional ties, at the very least in a circumstantial way.
Posted on 10/1/14 at 11:21 am to the808bass
quote:
So like Nidal Hassan.
Yes, Hassan wasn't targeting people he had a personal beef with, he was attacking what they stood far. However, Hassan acted against active members of the military, not civilians, so I would call it an act of war. Once he got flipped by Al Qaeda, he was basically a double-agent carrying out a mission, which means that he also committed treason. So you have two choices, charge him with murder or charge him with treason, but the end result is still the death penalty.
EDIT: If he had attacked a federal building like Timothy McVeigh did, I would call it terrorism. All four of the 9/11 hijackings were acts of terrorism since there were civilians on those planes, but if the plane that crashed into the Pentagon had not had civilians on it, I would call it an act of war.
This post was edited on 10/1/14 at 11:27 am
Posted on 10/1/14 at 11:37 am to trackfan
quote:
However, Hassan acted against active members of the military, not civilians, so I would call it an act of war.
Except he was a member of the US Military so he can't be at war with himself. And his actions are perfectly in line with the definition of terrorism as defined by Federal Statute.
Posted on 10/1/14 at 11:46 am to the808bass
quote:
Except he was a member of the US Military so he can't be at war with himself.
He was a double agent, it's called treason. The German-Americans and Itlaian-Americans who were captured on the battlefield during WWII, after returning home fight for their motherlands, were charged with treason, not terrorism.
quote:
And his actions are perfectly in line with the definition of terrorism as defined by Federal Statute.
Did you miss the part of the defintion that mentions "civilian population"? Any way, the Federal statute is besides the point, because I thought you were asking me for my definition.
This post was edited on 10/1/14 at 12:52 pm
Posted on 10/1/14 at 12:25 pm to trackfan
quote:
18 U.S.C. § 2332b defines the term "federal crime of terrorism" as an offense that: Is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct; and Is a violation of one of several listed statutes, including § 930(c) (relating to killing or attempted killing during an attack on a federal facility with a dangerous weapon); and § 1114 (relating to killing or attempted killing of officers and employees of the U.S.).
Posted on 10/1/14 at 12:38 pm to Rickety Cricket
quote:
Murderers are executed across the country all the time.
California is in the country, when was the last time someone was executed?
Posted on 10/1/14 at 12:53 pm to StrangeBrew
quote:
California is in the country, when was the last time someone was executed?
Are you saying that we need federal hate crime and terrorism laws as a backstop for states that don't have the death penalty?
Posted on 10/1/14 at 1:11 pm to The Mick
We should do away with thought crime altogether.
This should only go to motive as part of the proof. Hate should not be a crime in an of itself.
This should only go to motive as part of the proof. Hate should not be a crime in an of itself.
Posted on 10/1/14 at 2:17 pm to the808bass
ie, definition left wide open so they can paint tea partiers as terrorists and terrorists as 'undocumented protesters'.
Posted on 10/1/14 at 2:22 pm to TrueTiger
quote:
We should do away with thought crime altogether.
This should only go to motive as part of the proof. Hate should not be a crime in an of itself.
tend to agree, thought crime is an instituted idea though, , "premeditated" crime vs crime, along with degrees of crime sentencing that sometime work in a favorable direction for a 'justified' crime.
Posted on 10/1/14 at 9:38 pm to trackfan
quote:
quote:Are you saying that we need federal hate crime and terrorism laws as a backstop for states that don't have the death penalty?
No, what I am saying is
quote:
quote:
California is in the country, when was the last time someone was executed?
Posted on 10/1/14 at 11:09 pm to Rickety Cricket
quote:
He's being charged with murder and will face the death penalty. What difference does it make?
Cuz GM is alive and Bin Laden is dead. Wrong and wrong frickers. We have had numerous Islamic terrorist attacks on our soil since he has been in office. All written off as workplace violence. If you frickers are dumb enough to swallow the shite you're being fed, you too damn dumb to understand what difference it makes.
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