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Message
re: Why doesn't the GOP attempt to "fracture" the DEM party?
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:05 pm to Wolfhound45
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:05 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
while the other party does a poor job of communicating their ideas.
so you agree with me?
1
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:06 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
we have a lot more differences than you think, but we keep it in house
again
that's party over ideas. you just agreed with the point
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:07 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
it's not an excuse, it's just hilarious
Hilrious that every time it is brought up, I see deflection after deflection regarding it. An exceptionally well written book on statism/collectivism that somehow is not supposed to function as a critique.
quote:
you don't even know me
I know you too well.
I hear "Two Legs Bad, Four Legs Good" every time I hear you (and your brethren) post. And for that I offer you kudos, because your party discipline is exceptional.
Until the knacker shows up.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:08 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
you actually believe it.
it's true. academia, especially in the social sciences, and the media are dominated by liberals
quote:
if samsung said it can't sell tablets b.c apple says their tablets suck. What would you say to them?
to whom? samsung? if all you care about is tricking people, then lie.
from an objective standpoint, you obviously haven't listened to me call out apple fan boys and their religious-like support of an inferior product (even though individually it does out-sell superior counterparts)
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:08 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
you just agreed with the point
you said there was no schism of ideas on the left, that just isn't true.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:10 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
I hear "Two Legs Bad, Four Legs Good" every time I hear you (and your brethren) post.
you're not listening (or reading?) hard enough then.
for me, it's more like two legs bad, four legs worse (conservatives in this case being four legs).
i don't have much love for obama or the democrats, but in my estimation i simply have no choice because the alternative is far worse and at least dems might do some good on accident/via SCOTUS appointments.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:12 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
you said there was no schism of ideas on the left, that just isn't true.
it's a schism in terms of the party itself, reflected in voting/candidates
obviously there are a bunch of different sects that support the DEMs. that's the entire point. the DEM party is a coalition of single issue voters, who will support the DEMs as long as that issue is covered. there is no schism of support b/c of this makeup
the GOP is currently having a civil war b/c different groups have different belief systems, which is eroding a single messsage (and a single grouping of support in national elections...it's actually a strong strategy in terms of power emitting from the states)
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:12 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
it's true. academia, especially in the social sciences, and the media are dominated by liberals
oh definitely the left dominates academia. just like the right dominates business.
But the media? There are a ton of conservative news sources. Fox news - #1 in cable news. WSJ - #1 newspaper in terms of circulation.
Are there more liberal news sources? I imagine quite a few local newspapers and several tv stations might lean left. But this isn't why the message isn't accepted. The message doesn't work due to the message not b.c of channel interference. If you can't get your message out, and accepted that is YOU.
quote:
to whom? samsung? if all you care about is tricking people, then lie.
from an objective standpoint, you obviously haven't listened to me call out apple fan boys and their religious-like support of an inferior product (even though individually it does out-sell superior counterparts)
yes to samsung. You are a financial analyst. you are covering samsung. Samsung tells you on a call - we can't meet our sales numbers b.c apple tells people our products suck. If they would stop doing that, we would make our numbers. What would you say to them?
Personally I would laugh at them.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:13 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
so you agree with me?
Absolutely. The Republican Party is way off on it's message. Problem is (quite frankly), I am not sure the audience has the intellect to understand and apply the message. We are in a society that expects something for nothing, that there are no second and third order effects, and they have rights with no responsibilities.
Not sure you can craft a message for that (outside of the fantasy world of Progressivism).
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:15 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
Problem is (quite frankly), I am not sure the audience has the intellect to understand and apply the message.
You don't think even the most uneducated understand: If you work for something, it should be yours. or Less government means more freedom for you.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:16 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
you're not listening (or reading?) hard enough then.
for me, it's more like two legs bad, four legs worse (conservatives in this case being four legs).
i don't have much love for obama or the democrats, but in my estimation i simply have no choice because the alternative is far worse and at least dems might do some good on accident/via SCOTUS appointments.
Quite frankly, I do follow your posts casually. To the best of my knowledge, I have yet to see anything that resembles a critique of the Democratic Party (you yourself said you were united in a hatred for the Republican Party - hardly an endorsement of your objectivity).
But I will admit, I do not know you personally so I may have the wrong impression of your political beliefs.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:17 pm to petar
quote:
Millenials either don't care or support same sex marriage,
thats false.. Millenials support gay marriage over a 60% rate.
did you not read where I said millenial either don't care about the issue (like me) or support same sex marriage?
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:17 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
Problem is (quite frankly), I am not sure the audience has the intellect to understand and apply the message. We are in a society that expects something for nothing, that there are no second and third order effects, and they have rights with no responsibilities.
blaming the buyer for your inability to sell is bad salesmanship IMHO.
You have to sell your idea(s). Its not easy but in the past conservative leaders have done it, why not now? I can tell you - they are too busy complaining and bickering with each other to focus on the message. And they have terrible message discipline.
Plus the message currently sucks.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:20 pm to petar
quote:
You don't think even the most uneducated understand: If you work for something, it should be yours. or Less government means more freedom for you.
In todays environment? No.
Our society has been conditioned that they are "owed" something by "them" and that the government provides it. That, in fact, government is the all powerful benefactor. That even when it fails, if we only give it more power and funding it will (eventually) succeed. Government (in my opinion) has become the secular-humanist god.
We are in a sad state of affairs.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:20 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
There are a ton of conservative news sources. Fox news - #1 in cable news. WSJ - #1 newspaper in terms of circulation.
they're #1 b/c those are the 2 main "conservative" outlets. list me the top 10 and let's see which side dominates the 20 entries
quote:
If you can't get your message out, and accepted that is YOU.
you act like this is easy to do in the face of a liberal media and academia that does what it can to legitimize their arguments
how do you try to discuss a point that is automatically dismissed as illegitimate by those who allow the discussion in public?
quote:
You are a financial analyst. you are covering samsung. Samsung tells you on a call - we can't meet our sales numbers b.c apple tells people our products suck. If they would stop doing that, we would make our numbers. What would you say to them?
your argument is not really applicable
if samsung were faced with a world where the vast majority of reviewing sites were pro-apple and samsung was not able to even get a discussion started b/c those sites would dismiss (or refuse to publish) the pro-samsung arguments, then we'd have a comparable discussion
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:21 pm to petar
quote:
You don't think even the most uneducated understand: If you work for something, it should be yours. or Less government means more freedom for you.
what if the competing argument is: you can work less (possibly 0) and get more, without paying for it
which argument do you think will be more persuasive? especially to BDMs?
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:23 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
I can tell you - they are too busy complaining and bickering with each other to focus on the message. And they have terrible message discipline.
These two thoughts are a key part of the dissonance within the message. I cannot disagree.
Hard to sell "Hard work and self reliance are good" when the other party is selling "I will take care of you."
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:23 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
Absolutely. The Republican Party is way off on it's message. Problem is (quite frankly), I am not sure the audience has the intellect to understand and apply the message. We are in a society that expects something for nothing, that there are no second and third order effects, and they have rights with no responsibilities.
If Repubs ever actually come up w/ a message other than "we're not the Dems" they do very little to sell it as a convincing argument, probably because their heart isn't really in it. It's been very apparent for a long time that the "R's" are just for "more of the same only with us in charge". Which is why they hate the Tea party more than the Dems and why the Tea party exits to begin with.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:23 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
blaming the buyer for your inability to sell is bad salesmanship IMHO
welcome to the poli board
this is why they are on the "only people who make x should be allowed to vote, women shouldn't be allowed to vote" train these days.
it's pathetic but not surprising given this crew
Posted on 7/23/14 at 12:23 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
SlowFlowPro
What this man said.
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