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re: Why do people in the US want socialism
Posted on 12/22/16 at 12:59 pm to Godfather1
Posted on 12/22/16 at 12:59 pm to Godfather1
quote:
ounger people today have been coddled their whole lives. They value being taken care of over liberty.
Thanks baby boomers.
1
Posted on 12/22/16 at 1:07 pm to Nado Jenkins83
quote:
Thanks baby boomers.
Speaking as a Baby Boomer... our parents were pretty much shite too.
I know I know, but but but they were the "greatest generation" The ones who fought fascism and Nazism.
Did you ever stop and think that it was their parents who were the good ones? Their parents instilled the ideas that let them fight for those things. The WW2 generation came home and let their children(us boomers) run amok.
This post was edited on 12/22/16 at 1:08 pm
Posted on 12/22/16 at 1:16 pm to volod
People don't want socialism, they only think they do.
Young people that claim to want socialism don't know the definition of socialism
If they knew the definition of it, they wouldn't want it.
When they figure out they have to pay for socialism, they really won't want it.
Young people that claim to want socialism don't know the definition of socialism
quote:
1
: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2
a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
If they knew the definition of it, they wouldn't want it.
When they figure out they have to pay for socialism, they really won't want it.
Posted on 12/22/16 at 1:31 pm to Loserman
quote:
The WW2 generation came home and let their children(us boomers) run amok.
so....
WW2 Gen > BBs > this generation of parents?
but all suck arse at parenting?
I agree.
Thats why Im not a parent. I kick arse at everything
Posted on 12/22/16 at 1:37 pm to volod
The US has been quasi Socialist for a long time. Look at the education, cops, firefighters, Military, Medicaid and Medicare, SS, etc. People are just asking what the dems and conservatives tell them they want.
Posted on 12/22/16 at 1:41 pm to volod
too effeminate. security (so they think) at all costs.
Posted on 12/22/16 at 1:43 pm to volod
Because the idiots who majored in gender studies deserve to get paid as much as someone with an engineering degree.
Posted on 12/22/16 at 1:53 pm to TJGator1215
quote:Ah, right, because none of those things are attempts at solving real problems in society that free market capitalism doesn't adequately address.
The US has been quasi Socialist for a long time. Look at the education, cops, firefighters, Military, Medicaid and Medicare, SS, etc. People are just asking what the dems and conservatives tell them they want.
Posted on 12/22/16 at 2:03 pm to Korkstand
quote:
I used TOPS
So a touch of socialism is OK, then?
A merit based scholarship is socialism?
quote:
Not everyone can be accountants, nurses, and engineers. But they've been told that they need a degree to have any chance, so they obey and get a degree in whatever major they can.
Those are a small sampling of the jobs that can produce a successful life. I didn't touch on teaching, tech, healthcare (there are many jobs outside of nursing), construction management related jobs (project management, drafting, estimating), etc...
When they are told to get a degree, it is implied to get an education that is actually worth something, not just a piece of paper.
Also, not everyone in life will be successful. There are always winners and losers.
Posted on 12/22/16 at 2:12 pm to Korkstand
quote:
How has HK's version of capitalism changed since then? Isn't it still pretty much the freest economy in the world?
Change was centralization of govt power. That's why tons of people left HK, mostly for England and Singapore. No, it's not the freest economy in the world.
quote:
Like the nearly half of the population that lives in some form of government subsidized housing due to skyrocketing costs, and wages that don't keep up? And tens of thousands live in cages?
They didn't. Perhaps you're thinking of Chinese adaptations.
quote:
Look, I'm not advocating communism or even socialism. I'm just saying that capitalism, while obviously being the most beneficial system, still has its flaws. And I believe those flaws can be patched with ideas from other systems.
I understand. And I disagree. The only flaw of capitalism is inequality. I don't see it as a flaw because human nature is unequal. Trying to make it equal is defying human nature and always fails.
Posted on 12/22/16 at 2:17 pm to Korkstand
quote:
The US has been quasi Socialist for a long time. Look at the education, cops, firefighters, Military, Medicaid and Medicare, SS, etc. People are just asking what the dems and conservatives tell them they want. Ah, right, because none of those things are attempts at solving real problems in society that free market capitalism doesn't adequately address.
These programs represent two major categories of socialism that are not related at all.
a. Pooling money for the benefit of all.
b. Transferring money from those who have to those who don't.
Schools, fire, police, military benefit all.
Medicaid, Food stamps, welfare are transference of money with no collective benefit.
'B' should be abolished. 'A' should be shifted to the free market.
Posted on 12/22/16 at 3:11 pm to Epic Cajun
quote:Your education was at least partially paid for by taxpayers, correct? You can try to justify this form of socialism by feeling that you earned it, but the fact remains that a dollar was taken from me and given to you. And I don't mind at all, because odds are you'll pay it back many times over (thanks to capitalism).
A merit based scholarship is socialism?
quote:I know what kind of jobs exist. I'm just saying that for every well-paying job, there is a low wage job, and those people probably cannot survive without assistance.
Those are a small sampling of the jobs that can produce a successful life. I didn't touch on teaching, tech, healthcare (there are many jobs outside of nursing), construction management related jobs (project management, drafting, estimating), etc...
quote:Aw, shite, is this whole problem just because nobody was specific enough?
When they are told to get a degree, it is implied to get an education that is actually worth something, not just a piece of paper.
quote:I didn't say they have to be successful, I just said they need to survive.
Also, not everyone in life will be successful.
quote:No doubt, but if the losers can't survive without assistance, then I don't think the winners will want to see a time where they are outnumbered by the losers.
There are always winners and losers.
Posted on 12/22/16 at 3:21 pm to volod
Because they have been brainwashed to believe that guaranteed lower class status (with all basic needs provided by Goverment)is better than middle to upper middle class status gained by hard work, drive, and accountability.
Posted on 12/22/16 at 3:23 pm to Korkstand
quote:
A merit based scholarship is socialism? Your education was at least partially paid for by taxpayers, correct? You can try to justify this form of socialism by feeling that you earned it, but the fact remains that a dollar was taken from me and given to you. And I don't mind at all, because odds are you'll pay it back many times over (thanks to capitalism).
Wrong. You are selling a service. It's totally capitalism. When I was a Jr. in HS I got zero scholarship offers. Two months later I became a National Merit Scholar. Within the next two months I received 70 scholarships, most full tuition, some were full ride (room, board and books). It's because colleges are rated in part by how many NMS attend their school. They get a higher rating from me and they make more money.
On top of that you get the higher percentage of graduates who donate as alums. It's all actuarial tables. The college is making money off of me.
Posted on 12/22/16 at 3:26 pm to Zach
quote:I don't see where HK saw any dramatic economic changes due to this. Got a link?
Change was centralization of govt power. That's why tons of people left HK, mostly for England and Singapore.
quote:Everything I've read says it is. Again, got a link?
No, it's not the freest economy in the world.
quote:They didn't what?
They didn't.
quote:I know that inequality will always exist, and I don't think any true American would argue that it shouldn't. And, no, inequality itself is not a flaw, and neither is rapidly rising inequality. But it is a huge destabilizing factor, especially when the number of poor reaches critical mass.
I understand. And I disagree. The only flaw of capitalism is inequality. I don't see it as a flaw because human nature is unequal. Trying to make it equal is defying human nature and always fails.
It's just a simple truth that a rising tide does not lift all boats; in fact it sinks some. And you may be alright with that, and that's fine. It's just a consequence of a "pure" system. I'm just pretty sure that none of us want to see what happens when too many are left to drown. That is the inherent self-destructive flaw of pure capitalism.
Posted on 12/22/16 at 3:29 pm to Zach
quote:We are talking about TOPS, a state-funded scholarship program.
Wrong. You are selling a service. It's totally capitalism.
Posted on 12/22/16 at 3:35 pm to volod
Because it is a more fair system that spreads the wealth instead of concentrating it in the hands of the greedy few.
Posted on 12/22/16 at 3:35 pm to Zach
quote:I think you should look at 'B' with a fresh set of eyes to see the collective benefit. Now, I don't think our current set of programs are particularly efficient, but we definitely need some form of social safety net. And we all definitely benefit from those.
These programs represent two major categories of socialism that are not related at all.
a. Pooling money for the benefit of all.
b. Transferring money from those who have to those who don't.
Schools, fire, police, military benefit all.
Medicaid, Food stamps, welfare are transference of money with no collective benefit.
'B' should be abolished. 'A' should be shifted to the free market.
As for privatizing 'A', I don't think you've properly considered the consequences of a for-profit police force, fire dept, or military.
Posted on 12/22/16 at 3:36 pm to TheFonz
quote:
Decades of conditioning of young minds. The people wouldn't want socialism if the powers that be didn't want the power and influenced the education system to make people think they want it.
Precisely. All this crap can be attributed to our public educational system. It can be eradicated in the home, if parents would pay attention to what our kids are being taught.
Posted on 12/22/16 at 3:38 pm to Korkstand
quote:
I don't see where HK saw any dramatic economic changes due to this. Got a link?
Nope. I read 4 newspapers and 20 websites per day since newspapers and websites existed. I don't keep track of links and I don't do re-research unless I'm paid.
quote:
No, it's not the freest economy in the world. Everything I've read says it is. Again, got a link?
Singapore passed them a few years ago. Not sure of the various rankings today and not looking it up.
quote:
They didn't. They didn't what?
The people of HK didn't live in cages. Go back and read your own posts.
quote:
But it is a huge destabilizing factor, especially when the number of poor reaches critical mass.
This isn't 18th century France. The poor have big screen TV, cell phones, AC and don't even need to work.
quote:
s just a simple truth that a rising tide does not lift all boats
Nope. That's false. Rich people have to spend money or invest. Both = better living conditions for everyone. The rich don't burn their money for heat.
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