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Message
re: Why aren't there more pro choice conservatives?
Posted on 5/19/17 at 2:09 am to TheArrogantCorndog
Posted on 5/19/17 at 2:09 am to TheArrogantCorndog
quote:The real dilemma will come when science can birth babies without a mother.
Petri dish baby is the same as a naturally conceived baby
1
Posted on 5/19/17 at 2:09 am to TheArrogantCorndog
I rest my case I guess
Posted on 5/19/17 at 2:09 am to TheArrogantCorndog
quote:
Was Helen Keller any less human than you or I??
what does she have to do with anything? she could sense, couldn't she? did she not have consciousness? What does HK have to do with anything I've said?
I think you're conflating being human with being alive. My sperm are human, would you say they are alive? I could make a valid argument for it that you couldn't refute. Therefore, we must make some arbitrary YET reasonable definition for life. That's why I say let's go with the heartbeat.
Posted on 5/19/17 at 2:10 am to Masterag
quote:Nope. They are no more human than white blood cells. sperm cannot develop into a human without the egg.
My sperm are human
This post was edited on 5/19/17 at 2:12 am
Posted on 5/19/17 at 2:11 am to Asharad
quote:
The real dilemma will come when science can birth babies without a mother.
Fair enough, and that debate can happen when it arrives, but for now a better stance might be a zygote IN THE WOMAN and a baby that has just been born having the same rights. Since he simplified it to any sperm that has joined any egg he was forced to say he wouldn't be able to morally choose between saving a Petri dish or a baby that were falling side by side
Posted on 5/19/17 at 2:14 am to olddawg26
quote:
No... if that woman is so against having that child with that man she should have every right to go through what she needs to to make that happen.
Birth control is extremely cheap and abstinence is free... people need to take responsibility for their actions, and some actions have far more dire consequences than others... killing another human is a cop out, and a damming one at that... its a built in regret reset, and it's repulsive
Being pro choice is being pro murder, plain and simple... and not just any murder, murder of the most helpless human life in existence... it's disgusting and pathetic
Posted on 5/19/17 at 2:15 am to Asharad
quote:
My father was not dead, but he could not sense the world.
ahh... but he would have been without the assistance of a machine.
Nowhere did I say a non sensing person wasn't a human being, I said it wasn't a "living human being." which the hypothetical person in question would not be without life support.
Posted on 5/19/17 at 2:16 am to Asharad
they are human sperm, human cells, are they not?
Posted on 5/19/17 at 2:21 am to TheArrogantCorndog
quote:
Birth control is extremely cheap and abstinence is free... people need to take responsibility for their actions,
I do not disagree here but humans are animals, we are naturally gonna have sex. Our goal as animals is to succeed as a species and evolve, but our responsibility with frontal lobes is to not overpopulated to the point of mass genocide.
Your stance on just jumping quickly to call people murderers and repulsive means you got that stance by religion. By praying to the biggest abortionist in history. But that's when it jumps to mysterious ways and plans and can be twisted right?
Posted on 5/19/17 at 2:22 am to Masterag
quote:
I think you're conflating being human with being alive. My sperm are human, would you say they are alive?
Perhaps so, But dead cells don't replicate
quote:
Therefore, we must make some arbitrary YET reasonable definition for life. That's why I say let's go with the heartbeat.
I agree there must be some sort of definitive answer for the stage at which human life begins... considering human female eggs begin the process of replication when fertilized by a sperm, I say that is when life truly begins... the activity of creating a fully formed human has begun... it is alive, and morally speaking, killing it has now become wrong
Posted on 5/19/17 at 2:27 am to TheArrogantCorndog
quote:
I agree there must be some sort of definitive answer for the stage at which human life begins...
Yes. But one side is simply disagreeing while the other side is accusing people of murder. It's a debate and science is involved, if you enter your emotions and opinions instead of using objectivity then it's pointless to debate no?
Posted on 5/19/17 at 2:32 am to olddawg26
quote:
I do not disagree here but humans are animals, we are naturally gonna have sex. Our goal as animals is to succeed as a species and evolve, but our responsibility with frontal lobes is to not overpopulated to the point of mass genocide.
100% agree, but with our enlightened minds we should also accept the responsibility of population control with the advantage of our higher intellect... i.e. birth control or abstinence... and not fall into the trap of our animal instinct... that's why humans got to where we are in the first place
quote:
Your stance on just jumping quickly to call people murderers and repulsive means you got that stance by religion. By praying to the biggest abortionist in history. But that's when it jumps to mysterious ways and plans and can be twisted right?
The thing is, I don't need a book to tell me what is moral and what is not, nor do i need established religion to teach me murder is wrong... it's a societal framework we all live in, and without certain rules in which we all live by, society would break down into total anarchy... some rules are good for the collective of society to maintain course for future generations
Posted on 5/19/17 at 2:37 am to TheArrogantCorndog
Maybe evolution made a mistake by making sex pleasurable to the point of having it carelessly?
And....
quote:
i.e. birth control or abstinence...
And....
Posted on 5/19/17 at 2:37 am to TheArrogantCorndog
quote:
people need to take responsibility for their actions, and some actions have far more dire consequences than others
This x1000
Posted on 5/19/17 at 2:38 am to olddawg26
quote:
Yes. But one side is simply disagreeing while the other side is accusing people of murder. It's a debate and science is involved, if you enter your emotions and opinions instead of using objectivity then it's pointless to debate no?
I guess it all depends on which side of the debate one finds themselves on... on one hand, if defining life at later stages of development is the arguement, then no murder can take place... on the other side, if determining life at conception is the arguement, then disposing of said life is murder and reprehensible behavior
I think it's just the nature of the two sides
And yes, emotion can get in the way of honest debate, but like i said, I think its just the nature of the argument
Posted on 5/19/17 at 2:38 am to Masterag
quote:
aborting a fetus is not murder. next...
Good luck washing it out of your conscience.
Posted on 5/19/17 at 2:46 am to olddawg26
quote:
Maybe evolution made a mistake by making sex pleasurable to the point of having it carelessly?
I think evolution's mistakes are few and far between
In the not so distant past, pleasurable sex was necessary to propagate the species... human bodies have evolved to respond to certain stimuli that keep us alive... gotta keep that dopamine flowing to the frontal lobe
I also believe humans are like weeds and roaches, procreating exponentially, to the point where it is a significant concern, and insurmountable damage is a real threat
But i believe it is our responsibility to make sure the outcome is one of our liking, and doing it without harming a helpless child is my preference
This post was edited on 5/19/17 at 2:48 am
Posted on 5/19/17 at 2:51 am to TheArrogantCorndog
I dunno, one tube to eat AND breathe out of was a bit of a flub. As was putting the veins across the eye lense. We could have much better vision. I digress. I think the point is with your stance, obviously not budging at all, you're still forced to say that you couldn't morally choose between saving a falling Petri dish holding a joined sperm and egg or new born. We all know what you would pick. As we all would because it's quite obvious there's a difference. If you're simply going to say they're both the same then that's that and we should agree to disagree
Posted on 5/19/17 at 2:56 am to TheArrogantCorndog
Furthermore that doesn't even touch ectopic pregnancies and rape. I think my point is that it's more complicated than a cave man attempt saying "all abortions are murder no matter what".
Posted on 5/19/17 at 3:03 am to olddawg26
quote:
think the point is with your stance, obviously not budging at all, you're still forced to say that you couldn't morally choose between saving a falling Petri dish holding a joined sperm and egg or new born. We all know what you would pick. As we all would because it's quite obvious there's a difference. If you're simply going to say they're both the same then that's that and we should agree to disagree
I think we have a moral obligation as a species to not procreate until we are ready to bring the child to full term... abortion, to me, seems like a regret response we, as a society, are all too willing to accept because we "made a mistake"... I think life is more sacred than that... and we, as humans, are better than that
And no, I couldn't morally choose between which I would save... if forced to action, I would try and save both or die trying... I believe they are the same, so i guess agree to disagree
It's been fun tho, you old dawg you
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