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Message
re: Wheels on the bus go round and round: Benghazi
Posted on 6/18/14 at 3:01 pm to Poodlebrain
Posted on 6/18/14 at 3:01 pm to Poodlebrain
quote:
He is in captivity less than 24 hours, and Times reporter David Kirkpatrick was able to determine the content of Khattala's private conversations during the night of the attack, but Kirkpatrick doesn't know what Khatallah was up to in the period just before the attack.
Kirkpatrick has been on record for 21 months as reporting that Khattala gave an interview that Kirkpatrick implies, but never directly confirms, was conducted by Kirkpatrick himself. If Kirkpatrick did not conduct the interview, his journalistic reputation is at stake because he never in any way implies that some other individual, even an anonymous one, met with Khattala in person for the interview. In that interview, 21 months ago, Kirkpatrick quotes Khattala as saying the attack grew out of a peaceful protest against the video. So Kirkpatrick is on the same boat he been riding around in from the very beginning.
Posted on 6/18/14 at 3:03 pm to WheelRoute
quote:
to claim that NYT reporting is deliberately liberal and liberal in such a way as to produce a bias towards liberal issues is where your claim will come under scrutiny.
You're kidding, right?
Posted on 6/18/14 at 3:07 pm to WheelRoute
quote:
Or are you implying that b/c the NYT published false information in the past, that its entire work product is suspect indefinitely?
Well that is how kinda how this works now isnt it? I dont understand how some of you people made it to adulthood.
Posted on 6/18/14 at 3:08 pm to NHTIGER
quote:
Kirkpatrick has been on record for 21 months as reporting that Khattala gave an interview that Kirkpatrick implies, but never directly confirms, was conducted by Kirkpatrick himself. If Kirkpatrick did not conduct the interview, his journalistic reputation is at stake because he never in any way implies that some other individual, even an anonymous one, met with Khattala in person for the interview. In that interview, 21 months ago, Kirkpatrick quotes Khattala as saying the attack grew out of a peaceful protest against the video. So Kirkpatrick is on the same boat he been riding around in from the very beginning.
Sorry but this makes absolutely no sense.
ETA: I looked up the story to which you were referring and I recall it being posted here, a few times, with the usual suspects bashing Obama for it. You recall this interview from almost 2 years ago and it's not at all pro-Obama.
LINK
His reference to the video is what those guys have been saying including the paid security guards the night of the attack.
And I'm saying this with "peace and love, peace and love" as Howard Stern would say... I sincerely do not understand your (and the other righties) obsession with the stupid video. Seriously. This might be the dumbest thing you guys have every clinged onto and that includes the Mao Christmas ornament, the flag pin and the hand on the heart.
Also, when a writer reports, he doesn't say "I interviewed ____". A lot of times a reporter will take a quote from another story and put it in his. In that story, cites his contributors: Suliman Ali Zway contributed reporting from Tripoli, Libya, and Michael S. Schmidt from Washington.
This post was edited on 6/18/14 at 3:31 pm
Posted on 6/18/14 at 3:17 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:quote:Please elaborate.
FWIW. There was military precision at both locations.
quote:
TRIPOLI, Libya (AP) — It began around nightfall on Sept. 11 with around 150 bearded gunmen, some wearing the Afghan-style tunics favored by Islamic militants, sealing off the streets leading to the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi. They set up roadblocks with pick-up trucks mounted with heavy machine guns, according to witnesses.
The trucks bore the logo of Ansar al-Shariah, a powerful local group of Islamist militants who worked with the municipal government to manage security in Benghazi, the main city in eastern Libya and birthplace of the uprising last year that ousted Moammar Gadhafi after a 42-year dictatorship.
There was no sign of a spontaneous protest against an American-made movie denigrating Islam’s Prophet Muhammad. But a lawyer passing by the scene said he saw the militants gathering around 20 youths from nearby to chant against the film. Within an hour or so, the assault began, guns blazing as the militants blasted into the compound.
One of the consulate’s private Libyan guards said masked militants grabbed him and beat him, one of them calling him “an infidel protecting infidels who insulted the prophet.”
The witness accounts gathered by The Associated Press give a from-the-ground perspective for the sharply partisan debate in the U.S. over the attack that left U.S. ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans dead. They corroborate the conclusion largely reached by American officials that it was a planned militant assault. But they also suggest the militants may have used the film controversy as a cover for the attack.
Posted on 6/18/14 at 3:27 pm to NC_Tigah
I believe he means mortars. There were no mortars and rockets for the first attack. That was at 9:40. The second attack was at 4 a.m.
Posted on 6/18/14 at 3:29 pm to Vegas Bengal
I believe he means,,,
and I believe you do believe...
and I believe you do believe...
Posted on 6/18/14 at 3:32 pm to themunch
quote:
I believe he means,,,
and I believe you do believe...
Posted on 6/18/14 at 3:37 pm to Vegas Bengal
quote:
quote:
Kirkpatrick has been on record for 21 months as reporting that Khattala gave an interview that Kirkpatrick implies, but never directly confirms, was conducted by Kirkpatrick himself. If Kirkpatrick did not conduct the interview, his journalistic reputation is at stake because he never in any way implies that some other individual, even an anonymous one, met with Khattala in person for the interview. In that interview, 21 months ago, Kirkpatrick quotes Khattala as saying the attack grew out of a peaceful protest against the video. So Kirkpatrick is on the same boat he been riding around in from the very beginning.
Sorry but this makes absolutely no sense.
[/quote
Fair enough, I'll try again.
1. On October 18, 2012, David Kirkpatrick, under his byline in the NYT, describes a two-hour interview with Khattala at a Benghazi hotel.
2. Most interviews, at some point, either in the body of the story, or in a "note" at the beginning or ending of the story, state who conducted the interview, either by name, or by a generic identifier. Otherwise, the reader assumes the writer conducted the interview. (One might write, "I then asked him ..." or "He told me that on that night ...", etc.) There are no such personal, anecdotal references in the story.
3. Two individuals are acknowledged at the end of the story to have "contributed to" the story - one FROM Tripoli and one FROM Washington. Considering that the interview was conducted in Benghazi, it's obvious neither of those two men were the interviewer. The only conclusion is that Kirkpatrick himself conducted the interview, because if he did not, and someone else did (someone else who is neither named or "described" in the story), then the "interview" is worthless hearsay.
4, The Huffington Post has directly stated that Kirkpatrick was in fact the interviewer.
5. During that interview, Khattala directly made the case that the attack grew out of a peaceful protest against the video.
6. Kirkpatrick has always defended the thesis that the video was all or in part the cause for the attack and the subsequent deaths, and his Benghazi credentials are on the line. Backing away from that is not an option for him now. He has no credibility on this topic anymore - at all.
This post was edited on 6/18/14 at 3:39 pm
Posted on 6/18/14 at 3:44 pm to Vegas Bengal
quote:
The second attack was at 4 a.m.
5:15 AM - and it was the fourth attack - two separate attacks at the SMC and two at the annex.
Posted on 6/18/14 at 3:45 pm to Vegas Bengal
quote:
I sincerely do not understand your (and the other righties)
Most here consider me to be a RINO - "righty" ??
Posted on 6/18/14 at 4:19 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
Wolfhound45
quote:
Are they in fact two separate events that occurred on the same night? One a spontaneous demonstration (at the temporary mission facility) and one a deliberate attack (on the CIA compound)?
That's what I get from both this article AND the original NYT article. Not sure where the miscommunication is - *this is not a NYT fricking article!*, it's pulled FROM the NYT article. No one has claimed it was so people need to chill. And of course the title is meant to be misleading to give it credence - mention "NYT" and all of a sudden it's associated with NYT.
quote:
NHTIGER
quote:
David Kirkpatrick has been discredited re: Benghazi too many times to count.
Thanks for the heads up...probably explains why he's pulling misleading titles Could you reference that statement for me?
Posted on 6/18/14 at 4:20 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
NC_Tigah
Thanks brother. Truly appreciate it.
I have to say, if I formed roadblocks with vehicles and crew served weapons (I would anticipate 12.75 DShK 1938), then I would have sealed off all routes of escape, set up a good base of fire, breached the wall (not gone through the gate - death trap), use separate assault teams to trap the staff in their buildings (they do not have fire ports - it would have been easy), and killed them off one by one. Period. No survivors.
The fact that a handful of lightly armed CIA annex personnel were able to enter the temporary mission facility (demonstrating a lack of perimeter security for the attacking force) during the attack, find several of the staff and evacuate them to the CIA annex tells me this was lacking in military precision.
Just saying.
Posted on 6/18/14 at 4:31 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
The witness accounts gathered by The Associated Press give a from-the-ground perspective for the sharply partisan debate in the U.S. over the attack that left U.S. ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans dead. They corroborate the conclusion largely reached by American officials that it was a planned militant assault. But they also suggest the militants may have used the film controversy as a cover for the attack.
Seems plausible to me. Why not act like it was spontaneous - it gets the intel off of the scent.
Posted on 6/18/14 at 4:36 pm to idlewatcher
America being Chicagoed
Posted on 6/18/14 at 4:39 pm to Truckasaurus
quote:
Nothing the President does will satisfy this group.
dropping dead would be pretty satisfying
Posted on 6/18/14 at 5:09 pm to NHTIGER
quote:
3. Two individuals are acknowledged at the end of the story to have "contributed to" the story - one FROM Tripoli and one FROM Washington. Considering that the interview was conducted in Benghazi, it's obvious neither of those two men were the interviewer. The only conclusion is that Kirkpatrick himself conducted the interview, because if he did not, and someone else did (someone else who is neither named or "described" in the story), then the "interview" is worthless hearsay.
I don't think it's obvious that Suliman Ali Zway did not sit in for the interview. Although this does not directly answer this question, he has stated that he's met Abukhattala twice.
quote:
Suliman Ali Zway
?@ILPADRINO0
I met Abukhattala twice,and I'm very familiar with the #Benghazi militia dynamics/environment;good luck getting any1 to arrest him.. #Libya
LINK
quote:
4, The Huffington Post has directly stated that Kirkpatrick was in fact the interviewer.
Where did they say this?
I think other news orgs were interviewing him the same day too, corroborating the same account.
quote:
He has no credibility on this topic anymore - at all.
How so? His reporting has been remarkably consistent and it seems to agree with reporting from other major news organizations. For example, that AP article that is being cited here:
quote:
TRIPOLI, Libya (AP) — It began around nightfall on Sept. 11 with around 150 bearded gunmen, some wearing the Afghan-style tunics favored by Islamic militants, sealing off the streets leading to the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi. They set up roadblocks with pick-up trucks mounted with heavy machine guns, according to witnesses.
The trucks bore the logo of Ansar al-Shariah, a powerful local group of Islamist militants who worked with the municipal government to manage security in Benghazi, the main city in eastern Libya and birthplace of the uprising last year that ousted Moammar Gadhafi after a 42-year dictatorship.
There was no sign of a spontaneous protest against an American-made movie denigrating Islam’s Prophet Muhammad. But a lawyer passing by the scene said he saw the militants gathering around 20 youths from nearby to chant against the film. Within an hour or so, the assault began, guns blazing as the militants blasted into the compound.
One of the consulate’s private Libyan guards said masked militants grabbed him and beat him, one of them calling him “an infidel protecting infidels who insulted the prophet.”
The witness accounts gathered by The Associated Press give a from-the-ground perspective for the sharply partisan debate in the U.S. over the attack that left U.S. ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans dead. They corroborate the conclusion largely reached by American officials that it was a planned militant assault. But they also suggest the militants may have used the film controversy as a cover for the attack.
Can you point to reporting that says something else?
Posted on 6/18/14 at 5:12 pm to Decatur
quote:
Decatur
Oh, goody. I see the talking points have finally been disseminated on this.
Posted on 6/18/14 at 5:14 pm to Y.A. Tittle
I never understood why the 'terrosrist attack' and the 'film demonstration' angles had to be mutually exclusive.
Couldn't it be a planned attack in response to the film?
Couldn't it be a planned attack in response to the film?
Posted on 6/18/14 at 5:19 pm to boosiebadazz
yes, it could be a bit of the old false choice going on.
The film could well be part of the mix of reasons but it probably was less than 5%.
The film could well be part of the mix of reasons but it probably was less than 5%.
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