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Message
What Is The Russians' Goal?
Posted on 5/26/17 at 6:55 pm
Posted on 5/26/17 at 6:55 pm
This is never answered by anyone in the media and I've asked on this board before this question as well (with no answer).
Let's assume Trump and Russia "colluded" and were setting up "secret communication channels" to avoid NSA surveillance. Let's say all of that is true.
My question is what exactly were the Russians wanting? What was their goal? To get us to lift sanctions? OK, but there's nothing illegal or strange about them sucking up to a presidential candidate about sanctions. They would do it no matter who was elected.
I can't think of anything else (realistic) that the Russians would want. If it is about sanctions, then there's nothing at all illegal about Trump talking to them about the topic. Just because Obama didn't like it or agree with Trump's policy doesn't make it illegal or even out of the ordinary.
Let's assume Trump and Russia "colluded" and were setting up "secret communication channels" to avoid NSA surveillance. Let's say all of that is true.
My question is what exactly were the Russians wanting? What was their goal? To get us to lift sanctions? OK, but there's nothing illegal or strange about them sucking up to a presidential candidate about sanctions. They would do it no matter who was elected.
I can't think of anything else (realistic) that the Russians would want. If it is about sanctions, then there's nothing at all illegal about Trump talking to them about the topic. Just because Obama didn't like it or agree with Trump's policy doesn't make it illegal or even out of the ordinary.
11
Posted on 5/26/17 at 6:56 pm to AUstar
The extinction of all Pandas...?
Posted on 5/26/17 at 6:59 pm to AUstar
People should be asking, "What pro #Russians acts has the Trump admin taken thus far?"
The answer - None.
The answer - None.
Posted on 5/26/17 at 7:01 pm to AUstar
Apart from sanctions, sewing mistrust in your opponent is its own reward. Our intelligence community is getting out the super soakers and Europe's will probably join them after that dumbass NATO speech. If you're Putin, why wouldn't you want the NATO skeptic in charge of its largest military?
This post was edited on 5/26/17 at 7:02 pm
Posted on 5/26/17 at 7:02 pm to AUstar
IMHO - The Russians are laughing at the American media every single day, looking at each other and saying "WTF, these people are mental".
Posted on 5/26/17 at 7:03 pm to AUstar
The Russians have successfully exposed the fact that our oligarchy is perhaps more entrenched than their own.
Posted on 5/26/17 at 7:06 pm to Iosh
quote:
Apart from sanctions, sewing mistrust in your opponent is its own reward. Our intelligence community is getting out the super soakers and Europe's will probably join them after that dumbass NATO speech. If you're Putin, why wouldn't you want the NATO skeptic in charge of its largest military?
Well, if this is true, what you are saying is, people making a big deal out of it are the ones truly doing the Russians' bidding.
Posted on 5/26/17 at 7:09 pm to AUstar
Short term I'm sure they wanted to discuss the sanction situation, while long term the benefit would be weakening NATO specifically, as NATO and the EU continue to expand into the traditional Russian sphere of influence. There are a lot of geopolitical explanations that can be applied post hoc. I don't know how true they are.
Brexit drove some of that, as a key Russian hardliner, Aleksander Dugin, wrote of isolating Britain from Europe in a book that was supposedly influential in the Russian political circles in the 90s. I'm skeptical of overt Russian influence there too.
I mean, I would be very surprised if Russia didn't attempt to interfere in some fashion, as we would do the same to their elections.
Brexit drove some of that, as a key Russian hardliner, Aleksander Dugin, wrote of isolating Britain from Europe in a book that was supposedly influential in the Russian political circles in the 90s. I'm skeptical of overt Russian influence there too.
I mean, I would be very surprised if Russia didn't attempt to interfere in some fashion, as we would do the same to their elections.
Posted on 5/26/17 at 7:12 pm to AUstar
They want your children...all of them..and they want to eat them for breakfast
Posted on 5/26/17 at 7:16 pm to Y.A. Tittle
ah, the ol' "if you put the fire out, it wins" argument.
I see we're coming full circle.
I see we're coming full circle.
Posted on 5/26/17 at 7:17 pm to nateslu1
quote:
They want your children...all of them..and they want to eat them for breakfast
Posted on 5/26/17 at 7:19 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Short term I'm sure they wanted to discuss the sanction situation, while long term the benefit would be weakening NATO specifically, as NATO and the EU continue to expand into the traditional Russian sphere of influence. There are a lot of geopolitical explanations that can be applied post hoc. I don't know how true they are.
pretty much my opinion. This is what matters most to Russia. Personally, I'd let them have it.
Posted on 5/26/17 at 7:20 pm to AUstar
World domination?
A world where everyman can ride a horse shirtless?
More vodka for all my friends?
all of the above?
A world where everyman can ride a horse shirtless?
More vodka for all my friends?
all of the above?
Posted on 5/26/17 at 7:22 pm to Iosh
quote:
Apart from sanctions, sewing mistrust in your opponent is its own reward.
Bingo. This has been my theory for a while now. I don't buy the notion that Russia had nothing at all to do with the DNC hack (I think they did). However, as I have said before, their goal in all of this was to make everyone THINK they have some magical power to sway elections and influence people in America. Why would they do this? To sew chaos into our politics and weaken us internationally. Our government has essentially been shut down because of this nonsense. So, in that regard they have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams (thanks to WaPo, CNN, NYT and their lunatic Trump hatred).
In fact, I am almost certain some of these "leaks" are fabrications coming from Russia. A guy on CNN actually admitted this was a possibility while ago (and I think he's right).
Posted on 5/26/17 at 7:32 pm to AUstar
Maintain monopoly on natural gas into Europe.
Encourage disarmament and chaos in the EU and lackadaisicalness in nato so Russia can begin absorbing or installing puppet regimes in neighboring former Soviet Bloc nations.
Use proxies in the Middle East to bleed U.S. money and increase percentage of control over oil supply for Europe.
The idea is to eventually engineer a relatively bloodless coup, or a rapid blitzkrieg followed by a quick peace settlement, that gives them either direct or indirect control over most of continental Europe.
Encourage disarmament and chaos in the EU and lackadaisicalness in nato so Russia can begin absorbing or installing puppet regimes in neighboring former Soviet Bloc nations.
Use proxies in the Middle East to bleed U.S. money and increase percentage of control over oil supply for Europe.
The idea is to eventually engineer a relatively bloodless coup, or a rapid blitzkrieg followed by a quick peace settlement, that gives them either direct or indirect control over most of continental Europe.
This post was edited on 5/26/17 at 8:44 pm
Posted on 5/26/17 at 7:34 pm to MrCarton
quote:
pretty much my opinion. This is what matters most to Russia. Personally, I'd let them have it.
I don't see any long term gain, but the die has been cast with regards to Eastern Europe. It would take some monumental events for Eastern Europe to want to be under Russian influence again.
Posted on 5/26/17 at 7:36 pm to kingbob
quote:
The idea is to eventually engineer a relatively bloodless coup, or a rapid blitzkrieg followed by a quick peace settlement, that gives them either direct or indirect control over most of continental Europe.
They aren't going to have the capability to hold very much past their traditional sphere. They also have a demographic crisis coming that will be pretty severe, and explains some of their pivot toward central Asia.
Posted on 5/26/17 at 7:38 pm to AUstar
Best explanation that I've read.
LINK
LINK
quote:
This Russia does not aspire to be like us, or to make itself stronger than we are. Rather, its leaders want the West—and specifically NATO and America — to become weaker and more fractured until we are as broken as they perceive themselves to be. No reset can be successful, regardless the personality driving it, because Putin’s Russia requires the United States of America as its enemy
quote:
What both administrations fail to realize is that the West is already at war, whether it wants to be or not. It may not be a war we recognize, but it is a war. This war seeks, at home and abroad, to erode our values, our democracy, and our institutional strength; to dilute our ability to sort fact from fiction, or moral right from wrong; and to convince us to make decisions against our own best interests.
Posted on 5/26/17 at 7:45 pm to AUstar
The irony in all of this is that if the Russians had nothing to do with the DNC leaks (which the evidence presented so far indicates) the media and liberals have fought their battle better than they could on their own, creating political chaos and doubt in our entire government.
Posted on 5/26/17 at 7:45 pm to AUstar
Are these the same Russians referenced by the sitting President's opponent 5 years ago as the US' biggest geopolitical threat and the President chuckled and made a smart arse remark about?
Or is this the same Russia that the last President could be more flexible with?
I just want to be clear.
Or is this the same Russia that the last President could be more flexible with?
I just want to be clear.
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