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Message
1
Posted on 3/25/24 at 8:09 pm to OceanMan
quote:
Wait, is that the alternative?
It’s war. That’s how these things are measured.
quote:
So it’s working out well for the US because we have no dead soldiers. But it’s “not ideal” for THE Ukraine that has reportedly lost over 30k troops? Talk about a fine line.
It’s not really a fine line. In an American. Presumably so are you. You asked how things were going for “us”. Ukraine lost the geographic lottery. Again, if the Ukrainians thought capitulating to Russia was better than accepting money and weapons from the West, they’ve had ample opportunity to do so.
quote:
Or maybe what ultimately happens was always going to happen, we take on massive debt, and still are not respected for subsidizing the countries that have more to lose from this conflict than we do. Oh and Russia has a chip on their shoulder because we decided to fund their neighbor in a war.
Russia will eventually win the war and gain territory. They’ve had it in the east since the little green men arrived. But they didn’t anticipate doing it with such a loss of men and materiel.
The debt doesn’t bother me. Budgets of hegemons are not subject to the same forces as budgets of households. Our financial markets are still the safest and most secure in the world and they’re backed by the US military. We will still be the depository for most of the world’s capital. The $200 billion or so in Ukraine is a drop in the bucket.
Posted on 3/25/24 at 8:13 pm to Bunk Moreland
after Ukraine ultimately gets it's arse kicked, then it will be "oh, we must send billions and billions to Ukraine to re-build" The cycle will never end. After the "re-building" is finished, they'll pick right back up using it as their money laundering playground for foreign aid kickbacks. they're not even trying to hide it, anymore. because there are no consequences
Posted on 3/25/24 at 8:14 pm to OceanMan
quote:
You used it to refute that “MAGA is the most vocally opposed to giving money away” to Ukraine.
Trump himself called it a forgivable loan and that repaying was "against great odds."
Sounds like he's ok with giving money away to Ukraine to me.
This post was edited on 3/25/24 at 8:15 pm
Posted on 3/25/24 at 8:18 pm to FriedEggBowL
quote:
after Ukraine ultimately gets it's arse kicked, then it will be "oh, we must send billions and billions to Ukraine to re-build" T
If Ukraine gets their butt kicked, they will be rebuilt by Russia and will be the staging ground for Russia's next annexation.
Posted on 3/25/24 at 8:52 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
It’s war. That’s how these things are measured.
So the US is at war?
quote:
It’s not really a fine line. In an American. Presumably so are you. You asked how things were going for “us”.
We decided to involve ourselves monetarily so I’m going to use that as the measure rather than our country’s body count, since that was never a threat made to us.
quote:
Ukraine lost the geographic lottery.
But we are still buying tickets.
quote:
if the Ukrainians thought capitulating to Russia was better than accepting money and weapons from the West, they’ve had ample opportunity to do so.
Get your narrative straight.
quote:
Bogging them down in a quagmire in Ukraine is certainly is our best interest.
Does Ukraine have a say so, or not?
quote:
Russia will eventually win the war and gain territory.
So exactly what I just said.
quote:
The debt doesn’t bother me. Budgets of hegemons are not subject to the same forces as budgets of households. Our financial markets are still the safest and most secure in the world and they’re backed by the US military. We will still be the depository for most of the world’s capital. The $200 billion or so in Ukraine is a drop in the bucket.
Well we don’t agree on much in this sense. You don’t leverage something unless it has a positive return. That’s just math. If we are getting a positive return on our proxy position in this conflict, Im not sure how that is quantified, and I don’t see why we would be lying about it to ourselves, labeling as humanitarian aid if the strategic return was so obvious.
Posted on 3/25/24 at 9:03 pm to OceanMan
You should not think I am attempting to convince any one of anything here.
That is literally impossible.
That is literally impossible.
Posted on 3/25/24 at 9:04 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Trump himself called it a forgivable loan and that repaying was "against great odds."
I don’t really care. I don’t see how Trumps comments have influenced Ukraine policy at all, and you have failed to convince me that anyone else considered “MAGA” has not been the most vocally opposed to giving money away. You haven’t even given one example of anyone being vocally opposed to it.
quote:
Sounds like he's ok with giving money away to Ukraine to me.
Seems like he made this distinction for a reason and you are ignoring it so you can call someone a liar. Again, here you are trying to tell someone else they are wrong while not pointing to anyone else’s position that you think is right.
Posted on 3/25/24 at 9:11 pm to Bunk Moreland
quote:
he has repeatedly expressed a personal desire to send aid to Ukraine — something he has voted against repeatedly in the past
Explain this without Mike Johnson being compromised.
Posted on 3/25/24 at 9:18 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
But they are going to compete with us in Africa and Europe. For resources, markets, and influence.
Bogging them down in a quagmire in Ukraine is certainly is our best interest.
So you’re for a war that will cost tens of thousands of lives, cost hundreds of billions of dollars (at the expense of necessities here at home) for some economic advantage in Africa?
That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard.
Posted on 3/25/24 at 9:20 pm to RogerTheShrubber
And just to show you how lame your position below is, here is what Google thinks on the matter
Trump signals opposition to new Senate foreign aid package
How Trump Turned Conservatives Against Helping Ukraine
Why Is Trump Trying to Make Ukraine Lose? The former president isn’t in office—but is still dictating U.S. policy.
Trump will not give a penny to Ukraine - Hungary PM Orban
Biden pushes US House Republicans on Ukraine aid amid Trump opposition
Why 22 Senate Republicans defied Trump and voted for aid to Ukraine
And a nice piece of nostalgia for you
Trump administration broke law in withholding Ukraine aid, watchdog says as Senate prepares for impeachment trial
quote:
Sounds like he's ok with giving money away to Ukraine to me.
Trump signals opposition to new Senate foreign aid package
How Trump Turned Conservatives Against Helping Ukraine
Why Is Trump Trying to Make Ukraine Lose? The former president isn’t in office—but is still dictating U.S. policy.
Trump will not give a penny to Ukraine - Hungary PM Orban
Biden pushes US House Republicans on Ukraine aid amid Trump opposition
Why 22 Senate Republicans defied Trump and voted for aid to Ukraine
And a nice piece of nostalgia for you
Trump administration broke law in withholding Ukraine aid, watchdog says as Senate prepares for impeachment trial
Posted on 3/25/24 at 9:20 pm to Bunk Moreland
No amount of money will save Ukraine. They literally have no troops left, and supply chains are drying up. The only options are to send in NATO (Ignite WW3) or force Zelenskyy to the table, and concede territory. Zelenskyy conceding sounds like a loss for the west, but it’s better than the alternative. After a settlement the west could at least pause the war, then setup some type of buffer zone, and start working on Ukrainian entry into NATO.
Posted on 3/25/24 at 9:21 pm to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
So you’re for a war that will cost tens of thousands of lives, cost hundreds of billions of dollars (at the expense of necessities here at home) for some economic advantage in Africa? That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard.
But hegemon.
Posted on 3/25/24 at 9:22 pm to boosiebadazz
quote:
If capitulating to Russia was the better option they would have done it already.
Good god man, stop while there is still some possibility you are not retarded.
We caused the fricking war. This wasn’t some unfortunate situation that just happened. It was all orchestrated.
I hope it was worth the blood diamonds and lithium.
This post was edited on 3/25/24 at 9:25 pm
Posted on 3/25/24 at 9:25 pm to OceanMan
quote:
Trump signals opposition to new Senate foreign aid package
How Trump Turned Conservatives Against Helping Ukraine
Why Is Trump Trying to Make Ukraine Lose? The former president isn’t in office—but is still dictating U.S. policy.
Trump will not give a penny to Ukraine - Hungary PM Orban
Biden pushes US House Republicans on Ukraine aid amid Trump opposition
Why 22 Senate Republicans defied Trump and voted for aid to Ukraine
And a nice piece of nostalgia for you
Trump administration broke law in withholding Ukraine aid, watchdog says as Senate prepares for impeachment trial
These people love to rewrite history.
Posted on 3/25/24 at 9:29 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Trump himself called it a forgivable loan and that repaying was "against great odds."
Sounds like he's ok with giving money away to Ukraine to me.
He's also said that he would give Ukraine more than they could imagine if Putin doesn't agree to a cease fire.
OceanMan is stuck on what he's said in the past.
Trump's positions are constantly changing and he is very much for supporting Ukraine now.
Maybe someone should ask why?
Posted on 3/25/24 at 9:30 pm to SDVTiger
quote:
Lots of support for this on the OT
There are also a lot of misinformed, low IQ, dumbasses on the OT. Probably just a coincidence.
Posted on 3/25/24 at 9:38 pm to Bunk Moreland
I don't know much about Mr. Johnson, but anybody who is intellectually more mature than about 15 years old understands that the US can't pull back from foreign intervention like a turtle into its shell without major negative consequences.
The only politicians going along with the "Muh 'Merca First" Jimmy Carter style isolationist nonsense are either trailer-park stupid (Boebert) or simply feeding the useful idiots what they have been told by Tucker Carlson that they want to hear (Trump...who actually bombed Syria for reasons that had absolutely nothing to do with directly defending US interests during his first term).
The only politicians going along with the "Muh 'Merca First" Jimmy Carter style isolationist nonsense are either trailer-park stupid (Boebert) or simply feeding the useful idiots what they have been told by Tucker Carlson that they want to hear (Trump...who actually bombed Syria for reasons that had absolutely nothing to do with directly defending US interests during his first term).
Posted on 3/25/24 at 9:43 pm to wackatimesthree
Do you have a child? Probably not. If so, you should take them to the nearest recruiting office tomorrow morning so they can sign up and go sacrifice their life for Ukraine. I’m sure you’d be proud of their “sacrifice” and stand tall at the funeral as they lower what’s left of their body into the dirt. If you don’t have kids. I’m sure you’d be happy to add an additional $1,000 per month to your withholding so there’s more beans, bullets, and body bags to send overseas. With your tough talk, I hope you’re “doing your part”.
Posted on 3/25/24 at 9:45 pm to Bunk Moreland
Why does every politician Louisiana sends to Washington tow the uniparty line so dutifully?
This post was edited on 3/27/24 at 6:40 am
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