re: Trump: NFL needs to respect National Anthem or business will go to Hell

I would like to submit....


....yellow grapes...the muscat grape

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Insanity prevents someone from having a normal perception of reality.

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Clearly we are talking about a figuratively insane position, not a literal insane person with an opinion.

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I am talking about a literally insane position which means the person with the literally insane position is literally insane.

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Though I'm starting to think you are literally insane.

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I'm not just starting to think you are literally insane.

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Many times enough evidence is collected that disproves someone's opinion. 

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If that is the case, then it was not an opinion to begin with. It was a false fact.

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Nonsense.

"False fact" is an oxymoron.

It can't be a false fact since in order for something to be a fact, it must be known or proven to be true.

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Do you know the difference between a fact and an opinion?

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Do you know that an opinion can also be a fact?

An untrue opinion cannot be a fact.

That's a fact.

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I am talking about a literally insane position which means the person with the literally insane position is literally insane.

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Well that's just a stupid thing to bring up in this conversation.

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Nonsense.

"False fact" is an oxymoron.

It can't be a false fact since in order for something to be a fact, it must be known or proven to be true.

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I love that it's you talking about this, because I get to talk about sea serpents.

You, sir, would claim that it is a fact, the truth, that giant sea serpents exist, correct? Well, the rest of the world is not so sure. So would your statement be a fact or not? It is definitely not known or proven to be true, as required by the definition you linked. But it's also not an opinion, because it's not just a view that you hold, based on your feelings or whatnot. You earnestly believe it to be true, so it's not a lie, either.

So what is it? Is it a "claim"? That seems most appropriate, I guess, but a claim could be a statement of fact or of opinion, couldn't it?

How do we differentiate? Do you even care to? There is a clear difference between an opinion and a non-opinion, though. I called these non-opinions "facts", even though they may not be "facts" as defined by your link. Maybe I should have called them "statements of fact" rather than simply "facts", to be more clear? Regardless, the word "fact" can and has been used to refer to a claim that is verifiable, not necessarily verified. I remember in school learning the difference between facts and opinions, don't you? We can verify if a fact is true, whereas an opinion we cannot, because opinions are based on views, feelings, or some other subjective quality.

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Do you know that an opinion can also be a fact?

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No, I do not know that because it is not true. At least not in my understanding/interpretation of the word.

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An untrue opinion cannot be a fact.

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That's true, because an opinion is not a fact at all. In fact, a true (as in real) opinion cannot be proven to be true or false, and as such cannot be a fact. Opinions are subjective. Facts are objective.

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That's a fact.

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You can say that again.

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I am talking about a literally insane position which means the person with the literally insane position is literally insane.

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Well that's just a stupid thing to bring up in this conversation.

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Not when someone expresses an obviously insane opinion which is what you are doing.

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You, sir, would claim that it is a fact, the truth, that giant sea serpents exist, correct? Well, the rest of the world is not so sure. So would your statement be a fact or not? It is definitely not known or proven to be true, as required by the definition you linked. But it's also not an opinion, because it's not just a view that you hold, based on your feelings or whatnot. You earnestly believe it to be true, so it's not a lie, either.

So what is it? Is it a "claim"? That seems most appropriate, I guess, but a claim could be a statement of fact or of opinion, couldn't it?

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The existence of something that most people on the planet don't think exists is not a fact in their opinion but in reality it is a fact that sea serpents exist since I have the evidence that proves it is a fact that sea serpents exist.

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How do we differentiate? Do you even care to? There is a clear difference between an opinion and a non-opinion, though. I called these non-opinions "facts", even though they may not be "facts" as defined by your link. Maybe I should have called them "statements of fact" rather than simply "facts", to be more clear? Regardless, the word "fact" can and has been used to refer to a claim that is verifiable, not necessarily verified. I remember in school learning the difference between facts and opinions, don't you? We can verify if a fact is true, whereas an opinion we cannot, because opinions are based on views, feelings, or some other subjective quality.

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If something actually exists then it is a fact it exists even if everyone on the planet thinks it doesn't exist.

In the case of sea serpents existing, it is a fact that my brother and I had a definitive close sighting of a sea serpent on February 5, 1985 even if everyone on the planet thinks we didn't have a definitive close sighting of a sea serpent on February 5, 1985.

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Do you know that an opinion can also be a fact?

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No, I do not know that because it is not true. At least not in my understanding/interpretation of the word.

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If I see a mountain lion in my backyard and tell my neighbors that it is a fact there was a mountain lion in my backyard but my neighbors don't believe it is a fact that there was a mountain lion in my backyard because there has never been a sighting of a mountain lion in that area and there is no evidence in my backyard that a mountain lion was in my back yard, my neighbors' disbelief does not alter the fact that a mountain lion was in my backyard and that I saw it in my backyard.

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An untrue opinion cannot be a fact.

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That's true, because an opinion is not a fact at all.

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An opinion that is based on facts can be a fact even if no one believes that opinion can be a fact.

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In fact, a true (as in real) opinion cannot be proven to be true or false, and as such cannot be a fact. Opinions are subjective. Facts are objective.

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A true opinion can be proven to be true.

The truth is objective even when the truth is expressed as an opinion. It is the truth even if no one believes it is the truth.

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the outcry over something as dumb as an anthem is creepy.. very 1920s germany

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Yes, we now understand the new narrative from Progs is that love of country is racism.

TY for expressing that. Again.

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Not when someone expresses an obviously insane opinion which is what you are doing.

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The existence of something that most people on the planet don't think exists is not a fact in their opinion but in reality it is a fact that sea serpents exist since I have the evidence that proves it is a fact that sea serpents exist.

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And I'm the insane one?

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If something actually exists then it is a fact it exists even if everyone on the planet thinks it doesn't exist.

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Correct. What I'm trying to tell you is that no one can have an opinion that sea serpents exist, because such a statement is within the realm of the verifiable.

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In the case of sea serpents existing, it is a fact that my brother and I had a definitive close sighting of a sea serpent on February 5, 1985 even if everyone on the planet thinks we didn't have a definitive close sighting of a sea serpent on February 5, 1985.

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I assume you're talking about the video we've all seen, in which case I have this to say:

It is your opinion that your "sighting" was "close". In my opinion, that "sighting" was "far away". So far, in fact, that there is absolutely nothing definitive proven by that tape.

My apologies if you're talking about another sighting which was not captured on video, in which case there is zero evidence to verify that fact. I would refer to that as an unproven fact, or just generally a claim. It is definitely not an opinion.

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If I see a mountain lion in my backyard and tell my neighbors that it is a fact there was a mountain lion in my backyard but my neighbors don't believe it is a fact that there was a mountain lion in my backyard because there has never been a sighting of a mountain lion in that area and there is no evidence in my backyard that a mountain lion was in my back yard, my neighbors' disbelief does not alter the fact that a mountain lion was in my backyard and that I saw it in my backyard.

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All correct. It is obvious at this point that you are not following what I'm saying, and admittedly I'm not sure of the correct terminology to use, assuming the English language even has the correct terminology.

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An opinion that is based on facts can be a fact even if no one believes that opinion can be a fact.

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Ugh.

If you make a statement or claim that is based on facts (as opposed to based on feelings, views, or beliefs), then it is not an opinion. If the claim is phrased in a way that makes it verifiable, then it is not an opinion.


Again, by example:

Grapes are the best fruit.
Trump is the greatest threat to social justice in america today.


Both of those statements are strictly opinions. They express the views or beliefs of a particular person. Neither can be verified or disproved. There cannot exist a piece of evidence that makes either statement true or false. That is just the way the language works, man. It doesn't matter how strongly you believe either statement to be incorrect; you cannot invalidate an opinion via your own opposing opinion. I don't know what else to say to help you to understand.

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very 1920s germany

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You all cant help yourselves can you?

frick the NFL :usa: :usa: :usa: :usa: :usa: :usa: :usa: :usa: :usa: :usa: :usa: :usa: :usa: