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re: Trickle Down Economics Explained

Posted on 5/26/17 at 9:19 am to
Posted by Machine
Earth
Member since May 2011
6001 posts
Posted on 5/26/17 at 9:19 am to
quote:

the middle class in 2017 pay virtually no income tax.

Posted by bmy
Nashville
Member since Oct 2007
48203 posts
Posted on 5/26/17 at 9:20 am to
quote:


Service based economies only work well when they are based on a strong production economy. Production comes first...then we can have the services. Always.


Production is created through services. shite doesn't build itself.
Posted by Lou Pai
Member since Dec 2014
28133 posts
Posted on 5/26/17 at 9:21 am to
quote:


If you give me a $1,000 tax cut, I'll say "cool" and stick it in the bank. Does nothing to boost the economy.


Do you a) understand what a bank does, and b) understand what wealthy people generally do with excess savings?

Aside from the perverse mindset one must have to think the rich don't "deserve" their own money, it is also just another reason liberals are innately ignorant about economics, and what can drive or retard economic growth.
Posted by RuLSU
Chicago, IL
Member since Nov 2007
8087 posts
Posted on 5/26/17 at 9:22 am to
quote:

Trickle Down Economics Explained

"Feed the horse oats and the sparrows too shall feast."

^ People used to be far more honest about the whole "trickle-down" approach.
Posted by Loserman
Member since Sep 2007
21940 posts
Posted on 5/26/17 at 9:22 am to
quote:

Isn't this what Wall Street does to average Americans.


Nope.

Wall street makes tons of money for average Americans. Average Americans have 401ks those 401ks have grown on average 7% per year since the history of a 401k.

You would be more accurate if you said, isn't that what progressive policies do to average Americans.

Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
118914 posts
Posted on 5/26/17 at 9:22 am to
quote:

Isn't this what Wall Street does to average Americans.



"Wall Street" is looking out for its self interest. For example they want companies like Disney to take advantage of H1B visa programs to reduce the cost of labor. That helps Wall Street. They want open borders to bring in cheap labor to pick the crops of big ag. Wall Street loves these profitable and labor exploitation tactics.
Posted by tedmarkuson
texas
Member since Feb 2015
2592 posts
Posted on 5/26/17 at 9:24 am to
quote:

A family of 4 earning 50k a year is very likely at or near poverty.. hardly middle class.

30-40k per person per year is probably the lower end of the middle class


that's median income dumbschit

The U.S. Census Bureau reported in September 2014 that: U.S. real (inflation adjusted) median household income was $51,939 in 2013 versus $51,758 in 2012, statistically unchanged. In 2013, real median household income was 8.0 percent lower than in 2007, the year before the latest recession.

obamavillle!

Posted by Loserman
Member since Sep 2007
21940 posts
Posted on 5/26/17 at 9:24 am to
quote:

the middle class in 2017 pay virtually no income tax.


This is true.

Since the upper 10% of wage earners pay 85% of all income taxes.

The upper 1% pays 56% of all income taxes.
Posted by RuLSU
Chicago, IL
Member since Nov 2007
8087 posts
Posted on 5/26/17 at 9:26 am to
quote:

Yeah, the 80's proved it didn't work...I remember the high unemployment and the stagnation of wages...

I think the 80's proved that the theories behind the Laffer Curve were real.

I don't see an indication that supply-side would do us much good at this particular moment, though. We need domestic jobs.

Corporate taxes and business tax rates, not personal income taxes, are where the cuts need to be made.
Posted by Machine
Earth
Member since May 2011
6001 posts
Posted on 5/26/17 at 9:26 am to
quote:

This is true.

Since the upper 10% of wage earners pay 85% of all income taxes.

The upper 1% pays 56% of all income taxes.
and its still lower than those "good ole days" of the 50's conservatives long for
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
118914 posts
Posted on 5/26/17 at 9:27 am to
quote:

Production is created through services. shite doesn't build itself.


If you are making stuff like O&G, cars, phones you are not in the service economy.

A doctor treating a worker at a cabinet factory is providing a service. That worker would not be able to afford the doctor's services without making cabinets first.
Posted by Loserman
Member since Sep 2007
21940 posts
Posted on 5/26/17 at 9:28 am to
quote:

This is largely true, though. The goal is to prey on the ignorant enough to turn the biggest possible profit while still leaving them unaware they were fricked. And as your power and influence grows eventually the law morphs to protect your business from competition allowing you to frick consumers over even harder


This is absolutely bullshite.

70 years ago, almost no American's had Refrigerators, Washers, and Dryers.

If you were wealthy enough to have one of those devices they generally cost adjusted for inflation around 10 times what they do now.



Posted by Loserman
Member since Sep 2007
21940 posts
Posted on 5/26/17 at 9:32 am to
quote:

This is true. Since the upper 10% of wage earners pay 85% of all income taxes. The upper 1% pays 56% of all income taxes.


quote:

and its still lower than those "good ole days" of the 50's conservatives long for


Actually it isn't.

Sure if you look at the 1950s and see things like the upper 1% having a tax rate of 90% it looks like on the surface that you would be correct.

The problem is no one actually paid those rates.
The % that the rich paid then in actual receipts paid was lower than today.
Posted by N.O. via West-Cal
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2004
7179 posts
Posted on 5/26/17 at 9:32 am to
"No!

You have been brainwashed to believe that someone becomes rich at the expense of others."

This is the baseline fallacy of far too many. Aside from criminality or crony capitalism/abuses in connection with government contracts, someone else getting reach is at worst neutral and often mildly beneficial to society at large. This does not necessarily mean that any particular marginal tax rate has been set by God above, but it's a reminder that free market economics is NOT a zero-sum game. Sure, there is competition but more often than not, both sides of a transaction are better off.
Posted by Lou Pai
Member since Dec 2014
28133 posts
Posted on 5/26/17 at 9:33 am to


Just watched the video in OP. That guy is a no-name total hack.

"True, wealthy people invest tax savings in the economy, but that doesn't directly benefit society." Wow, talk about cutting edge!

Then he uses a percentage breakdown of disposable income spent by lower class vs. the upper class on goods and services, as if that is supposed to be some absolute measure of economic stimulus.

Some of the things he said in the video (about lowering taxes) are flat out rejected by mainstream economists, both supply-side and demand-side. It's an uncontroversial axiom of Econ 102 that lowering taxes = stimulus.

I feel sorry for whoever has this hack running their money.
This post was edited on 5/26/17 at 9:36 am
Posted by tedmarkuson
texas
Member since Feb 2015
2592 posts
Posted on 5/26/17 at 9:34 am to
quote:

and its still lower than those "good ole days" of the 50's conservatives long for


do you really expect us to believe you have a job son?



here son these are the tax brackets in 1979 the year i graduated high school

married filing joint:

$0.00+ 0%
$1,700.00+ 14%
$2,750.00+ 16%
$3,800.00+ 18%
$5,950.00+ 21%
$8,000.00+ 24%
$10,100.00+ 28%
$12,300.00+ 32%
$14,950.00+ 37%
$17,600.00+ 43%
$22,900.00+ 49%
$30,000.00+ 54%
$42,800.00+ 59%
$54,700.00+ 64%
$81,200.00+ 68%
$107,700.00+ 70%

you have no concept of what paying taxes would look like.

do us all a favor and shut the phuck up.

left of center moderate! that's a good one comrade!
This post was edited on 5/26/17 at 9:35 am
Posted by SavageOrangeJug
Member since Oct 2005
19758 posts
Posted on 5/26/17 at 9:38 am to
It worked a whole lot better than Lil' Hussein Obama's Poverty Up Economics work.
Posted by Loserman
Member since Sep 2007
21940 posts
Posted on 5/26/17 at 9:40 am to
quote:

This is the baseline fallacy of far too many. Aside from criminality or crony capitalism/abuses in connection with government contracts, someone else getting reach is at worst neutral and often mildly beneficial to society at large. This does not necessarily mean that any particular marginal tax rate has been set by God above, but it's a reminder that free market economics is NOT a zero-sum game. Sure, there is competition but more often than not, both sides of a transaction are better off.


Otherwise neither side would willingly enter in to the transaction.

There are many goods and services I have wished to own over the years. I kept them on my wish list and never bought them for a couple reasons.
The main reason was I felt they were too expensive for me to buy.

Funny thing happened though. As time went on not only did the products become cheaper but they were better than the original ones I had my eye on for years.
Another thing happened along the way. As my skills grew I was able to get better paying work which put some of those dream items I wanted in the disposable income range for me.


That is just how basic economics works. To deny it is foolishness or just plain ignorance.
Posted by Ambassador
West Monroe, LA
Member since Jan 2004
1352 posts
Posted on 5/26/17 at 9:52 am to
This is a true story that I know myself to be true.

Person A received a $50,000 bonus from the company he was working for and opened a restaurant with the funds. He deferred paying the taxes to be able to afford opening his own business. He probably deferred the taxes illegally but did not verify with an accountant or the IRS because he was determined to open the restaurant. He did pay the taxes eventually.

After opening the restaurant one of his employees asked him if he could ever vote for a woman for president. He said yes but knowing what was really being asked added it would never be a woman like Hillary Clinton. The employee asked why.

The answer was simple. Among many reasons, he answered with this. Last night I saw Hillary on the O'Reilly Factor. On the show she admitted that in her mind the government was entitled to 70% of the wealthy's income. The employee actually thought that was fair.

So the restaurant owner compared that one time proposed tax of $35,000 to what he did. By possibly skirting the law and delaying paying the taxes on the $50,000 he was still just barely able to open the restaurant. He surely could not have opened the restaurant if he had only netted $15,000. As a result he was able to open the restaurant and generated over $800,000 of revenue his first year. His first year in business he generated through sales taxes, employment taxes, property taxes, income taxes, etc over $180,000 in tax revenue and was on pace to do more his second year.

So I ask you as he asked his employee, which should the government want, the annual and repetitive taxes of over $180,000 or the one time theft of $35,000? He should not have had to skirt the law to pull this off. It really is an easy answer; so who has been brainwashed?
Posted by cahoots
Member since Jan 2009
9134 posts
Posted on 5/26/17 at 9:56 am to
The middle class already doesn't pay much income tax. Unless you're single and without kids.

A family of 4 earning $75,000 per year that saves 10% for retirement has a 5% effective tax rate at maximum. It can be even lower than that.

Our income tax system is already built around demand-side economic theory.
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