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Message
re: This about sums up my thoughts on the ice bucket challenge
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:15 am to shel311
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:15 am to shel311
quote:
What are the means?
have you been on facebook recently?
just ask yourself why anyone, who just discovered this horrible disease and worthy cause, would give $10 and promote themselves on facebook over giving $100, and you have your answer
quote:
Why are you assuming the means are negative?
you think using charity as a means to socially peacock is a positive thing? that's a yes or no quesiton
1
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:22 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
simply disseminating information so that people can read, judge, and evaluate. in a perfect world this would be how it unfolded
So, you'd prefer that people share information, through some medium, that incites action in others?
Just like the ice bucket challenge is doing for ALS research?
quote:
THAT is peacocking, by definition
that's the whole point of peacocking
Actually, peacocking, by definition, is "displaying oneself ostentatiously."
You believe that telling anyone you did something is behaving ostentatiously? Seriously?
quote:
the ends do not justify the means, in other words
What means in this case are "questionable?" Posting a video on facebook?
quote:
you also have to go look at my thread from last year that isn't anti-charity, but is seen that way
Yeah, I am not going to do that. It's pretty narcissistic of you to think that anyone should take the time to do that. Why don't you just share your thoughts here instead of asking people to research your posts as if they are of some relevant importance?
quote:
i think that things would be better if we used a lot of that money towards private investment, which improves our social standard moreso, which gets even more money flowing for research in various areas
So, you are opposed to people giving directly to chartiy, instead hoping that corporate investment flows to research, etc. Do you think that companies who direct their investment money towards research into causes such as ALS awareness are doing so for increased social standards, or to increase their potential profits?
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:27 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
just ask yourself why anyone, who just discovered this horrible disease and worthy cause, would give $10 and promote themselves on facebook over giving $100, and you have your answer
Well, first off, you are creating a straw man with the "$10" piece.
The challenge is to donate $100, OR douse yourself and donate $25 and challenge three people to do the same. So, in your world, you'd want people to shut up and donate $100. In my world, I'd want 25 people to donate $25.
Case in point -- I challenged 6 people. Those people collectively challenged 19 more. I donated more than my "required" $25.
But hey...I am just peacocking and immoral.
quote:
you think using charity as a means to socially peacock is a positive thing?
No.
But, who exactly is "using charity" here?
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:34 am to DrEdgeLSU
quote:
So, you'd prefer that people share information, through some medium, that incites action in others?
you added the bolded part, which i detest
quote:
Just like the ice bucket challenge is doing for ALS research?
only if you include the part you did that i did not
quote:
You believe that telling anyone you did something is behaving ostentatiously? Seriously?
you're making too general of a definition
telling the world that you have value because you did this great thing for CHARITY...that's peacocking
quote:
What means in this case are "questionable?" Posting a video on facebook?
emotional thinking. sheep mentality. supporting the charity with the best marketing ploy over supporting what you feel are the best charities. promoting ignorance of charities without being told via social media. the belief that you've done your job and are done if you give $10 and pour a bucket of ice on your head. etc
quote:
So, you are opposed to people giving directly to chartiy
i'm not opposed to it. i believe in most cases, especially BIG donations, it's inefficient
people can do as they wish. i can comment on their behavior as i wish
again, that's part of they hypocrisy. people believe that because of a charity is involved, or that some good came out of it, that it's above criticism. that's insane. the same rules apply to all behaviors
quote:
Do you think that companies who direct their investment money towards research into causes such as ALS awareness are doing so for increased social standards, or to increase their potential profits?
i'm sure it depends on the company involved
i guarantee you big pharma and the medical industry does not lack a profit motive
*ETA: and that's not a bad thing. if profit motive get this disease (or basically any disease) cured, then great
This post was edited on 8/19/14 at 11:35 am
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:36 am to DrEdgeLSU
quote:
The challenge is to donate $100, OR douse yourself and donate $25
i've been told $10, not $25. that's where i got the #
quote:
So, in your world, you'd want people to shut up and donate $100.
well it's not illegal to donate $100 and then challenge your ENTIRE FACEBOOK FRIENDLIST to do the same
if there is such a law, i do not support it and think it should be rescinded
quote:
But, who exactly is "using charity" here?
those self-promoting themselves on social media
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:37 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
those self-promoting themselves on social media
social media, is by definition, self-promotion.
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:38 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Even if I were to assume everything you said has truth to it, there would still be a negative componenet and a positive component to it.
that's part of they hypocrisy. people believe that because of a charity is involved, or that some good came out of it, that it's above criticism. that's insane
Again, you're choosing to focus solely on the negative component as a reason to just complain about it while ignoring the positive component. That's what habitual complainers do.
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:39 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Wait, what?
*ETA: and that's not a bad thing. if profit motive get this disease (or basically any disease) cured, then great
Based on everything your'e ranting about, now you say selfish profit motive is ok? WTF?
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:41 am to shel311
quote:
Based on everything your'e ranting about, now you say selfish profit motive is ok? WTF?
if it gets shite done
profits aren't "selfish". profits are tied to making our lives better, by offering improving goods/services at lower prices
you're thinking that i said "greed"
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:42 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
again, do all of you support "the ends justify the means" in all other aspects of life? that's basically teh argument
The ends justify the means in this case. Absolutely. Millions of dollars are being raised and if the worst that happens is a few sorority girls get to post another video to facebook, so be it. In the end this charity that is looking to find a cure to a deadly, paralyzing disease, is getting a lot of money. Who gives a shite how it gets in their hands. This is just another thing for people to bitch about. It's really not that big of a deal, just ignore it.
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:43 am to gatorhata9
quote:
The ends justify the means in this case.
where is your line?
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:44 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
which i detest
Boo-f'in-hoo. You believe that in a world of human interaction that we have the capability to know/discern every possible decision out there? That we shouldn't rely on our social network/news/other forms of human-created information to narrow down that which we act upon? Where do you find unbiased information sources?
quote:
telling the world that you have value because you did this great thing for CHARITY...that's peacocking
Interesting. Who is "telling the world" they have value because they did this? Was Steve Gleason telling the world he has value because he did this?
quote:
you're making too general of a definition
I was simply responding to your statement. I asked if it was wrong to tell someone I have done something charitable. You called it peacocking. I believe you are the over-generalizer here.
quote:
supporting the charity with the best marketing ploy over supporting what you feel are the best charities.
Again, are you perhaps overgeneralizing here? If I didn't want to donate, I wouldn't have and nobody would have been the wiser. But I certainly would never state publicly that I had, suggest that others do the same, and then not follow through with it. Your suggestion is that it was the marketing ploy that causes people to donate. I believe it's the marketing ploy that causes people to think about donating. And that is an enormous distinction.
quote:
i can comment on their behavior as i wish
But you are commenting on their character, not their behavior. You can state that dumping a bucket of water on one's head is stupid, or posting a video on facebook to be stupid, etc, but those aren't the statements you are making. You are projecting your beliefs about why those individuals are doing it and denigrating individuals' character. There is again an enormous distinction between the two.
quote:
again, that's part of they hypocrisy. people believe that because of a charity is involved, or that some good came out of it, that it's above criticism. that's insane. the same rules apply to all behaviors
What rules? Please link to the rules you are referring to.
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:44 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:But the ice bucket challenge is "getting shite done", so I'm not buying that as a reason from you.
if it gets shite done
quote:The ice bucket challenge shouldn't be selfish then because it is tied to making people's lives better in theory, based on the donations, so again, i'm not buying it since it applies to both instances, but you're only giving one the benefit of the doubt.
profits aren't "selfish". profits are tied to making our lives better
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:46 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:If this money can be used for some ALS breakthrough, you'd honestly draw the line before a possible self involved post on FB? You don't even believe that, no way.
where is your line?
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:47 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
well it's not illegal to donate $100 and then challenge your ENTIRE FACEBOOK FRIENDLIST to do the same
But, according to you, that would be peacocking. And therefore immoral and hypocritical.
quote:
those self-promoting themselves on social media
Which you just suggested would be acceptable.
So is it the videos that are bothering you? How are the videos different from words?
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:47 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
where is your line?
What line is being crossed, in your mind?
Who is being harmed here?
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:51 am to DrEdgeLSU
quote:
You believe that in a world of human interaction that we have the capability to know/discern every possible decision out there?
i don't mind disseminating information. i don't know why you assumed that from my post
quote:
That we shouldn't rely on our social network/news/other forms of human-created information to narrow down that which we act upon?
don't care about this either. it's a great way to get lots of information very quickly. very efficient
quote:
Where do you find unbiased information sources?
oh. that's all but impossible (and with the efficiencies above, comes this negative. proliferation of biased and rushed media)
quote:
. Who is "telling the world" they have value because they did this?
that's the whole point
just like why so many celebrities publicly give their donations. same genesis
quote:
But you are commenting on their character, not their behavior.
one in the same. your character dictates what behaviors you will/won't engage in, especially in public
quote:
What rules?
being able to criticize behaviors we see as negative
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:53 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
where is your line?
Line?
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:53 am to shel311
quote:
But the ice bucket challenge is "getting shite done",
it's raising money. i was talking about finding a cure. other than a huge gap in the 2 things, two completely different bases
quote:
The ice bucket challenge shouldn't be selfish then because it is tied to making people's lives better in theory
i'll try to explain again
how about this: why don't people do the challenge, off camera, and then post their challenges?
no video. just "i'm donating a lesser amount to spread the word. i did the challenge. now i challenge you...or you can donate more than me"
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:54 am to DrEdgeLSU
quote:
But, according to you, that would be peacocking.
true. i'll rephrase
there is no reason why you can't just tell your entire facebook friendlist about the disease and say it needs support
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