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Started By
Message
re: Special Counsel Mueller Impanels Washington Grand Jury in Russia Probe
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:37 pm to bonhoeffer45
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:37 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
but the president is not a dictator and our constitution made this very clear with how they organized the checks and balances to not be beholden strictly to criminal law.
It's not the justice system's duty to hold him in check. The DoJ is part of the president's executive branch and the president is the chief executive. This means all of the DoJ (including the FBI) works for him. This is how the constitution was written. I am sorry if people don't like it, but that's how it is. There are "protocols" and etiquette put into place for "separating" the president from investigations going on at DoJ, but it is not a law and the president can end any investigation he chooses at any time for any reason.
Now, this doesn't mean the president is a dictator. The constitution allows the other 2 branches the power of oversight. In this case it would be the House who has the power of impeachment and the Senate with the power to convict (with a 2/3rds majority). If they don't like how the president is conducting his business with these investigations they are free to impeach and take it to trial.
3
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:38 pm to tigerinDC09
TRUMP be witchunt!
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:41 pm to bonhoeffer45
I hope they try the obstruction route.....it's a loser.
Seriously, any other attorneys on here ? If the information out right now is even 1/10 of what went on, this becomes a waste of the taxpayers money.
There has to be evidence of a crime being committed by Trump for there to be obstruction. If Trump was or is a target of an FBI investigation, Trump would have to be informed and in this environment this sort of thing would not be secret. Plus, you have Comey on the record post Valentine's Day in front of the Committee saying the President is not under investigation. At the time of Comey's firing, the President was not under investigation. The President did not order the investigation stopped post Comey firing
I'm really not seeing the obstruction of justice.
Seriously, any other attorneys on here ? If the information out right now is even 1/10 of what went on, this becomes a waste of the taxpayers money.
There has to be evidence of a crime being committed by Trump for there to be obstruction. If Trump was or is a target of an FBI investigation, Trump would have to be informed and in this environment this sort of thing would not be secret. Plus, you have Comey on the record post Valentine's Day in front of the Committee saying the President is not under investigation. At the time of Comey's firing, the President was not under investigation. The President did not order the investigation stopped post Comey firing
I'm really not seeing the obstruction of justice.
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:41 pm to tigerinDC09
quote:
Special Counsel Mueller Impanels Washington Grand Jury in Russia Probe
This post was edited on 8/3/17 at 3:42 pm
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:41 pm to AUstar
quote:
Impeachment is not the same as a criminal investigation with a grand jury. Impeachment is a political process, not a legal one. The House can impeach for any reason whatsoever if they have the votes.
Right, the president can be guilty of obstruction of justice. Full stop. Though the impeachment process is political, it still assigns guilt.
As for your assertion that the president cannot be guilty of criminal obstruction of justice b/c he has the pardoning power, that too is incorrect b/c he still has to exercise the pardon power. If convicted, until he does, he is guilty. ^ And even that makes a lot of assumptions.
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:41 pm to Old Hellen Yeller
He better hope he doesn't get called. From his losing defamation suit against Timothy O'Brien:
WP, 8.10.16
quote:
For two straight days, they asked Trump question after question that touched on the same theme: Trump’s honesty.
The lawyers confronted the mogul with his past statements — and with his company’s internal documents, which often showed those statements had been incorrect or invented. The lawyers were relentless. Trump, the bigger-than-life mogul, was vulnerable — cornered, out-prepared and under oath.
Thirty times, they caught him.
Trump had misstated sales at his condo buildings. Inflated the price of membership at one of his golf clubs. Overstated the depth of his past debts and the number of his employees.
WP, 8.10.16
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:43 pm to TigerDoc
Oh my GOD! Trump overpriced his golf clubs 30 years ago! Impeach!
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:43 pm to AUstar
quote:
This means all of the DoJ (including the FBI) works for him.
NO THEY DO NOT.
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:44 pm to WheelRoute
quote:
NO THEY DO NOT
Are they not in the Executive Branch of the United States Government?
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:44 pm to WheelRoute
quote:
As for your assertion that the president cannot be guilty of criminal obstruction of justice b/c he has the pardoning power, that too is incorrect b/c he still has to exercise the pardon power. If convicted, until he does, he is guilty.
And I believe a pardon in advance of a conviction is an implicit admission of guilt.
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:44 pm to WheelRoute
quote:YES THEY DO!
NO THEY DO NOT.
I don't know if that is true or not. I just wanted to yell back at you.
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:46 pm to WheelRoute
quote:
NO THEY DO NOT.
bingo
LINK
quote:
Our Mission
To protect the American people and uphold the Constitution of the United States.
quote:
Our Priorities
Protect the United States from terrorist attack
Protect the United States against foreign intelligence operations and espionage
Protect the United States against cyber-based attacks and high-technology crimes
Combat public corruption at all levels
Protect civil rights
Combat transnational/national criminal organizations and enterprises
Combat major white-collar crime
Combat significant violent crime
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:47 pm to Bunyan
They won't be asking him about his golf clubs.
If he gives "false testimony concerning a material matter with the willful intent to provide false testimony, rather than as a result of confusion, mistake, or faulty memory,” that's perjury. Bill Clinton was impeached for it.
If he gives "false testimony concerning a material matter with the willful intent to provide false testimony, rather than as a result of confusion, mistake, or faulty memory,” that's perjury. Bill Clinton was impeached for it.
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:48 pm to AUstar
quote:
It's not the justice system's duty to hold him in check. The DoJ is part of the president's executive branch and the president is the chief executive. This means all of the DoJ (including the FBI) works for him. This is how the constitution was written. I am sorry if people don't like it, but that's how it is. There are "protocols" and etiquette put into place for "separating" the president from investigations going on at DoJ, but it is not a law and the president can end any investigation he chooses at any time for any reason.
this is like 1/2 right. The president can definitely fire Mueller (for cause) via his attorny general. But the FBI and DOJ does not work for him. They work to protect the american people and serve the constitution. It is not his private police force as much as trumpkins want it to be.
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:49 pm to TigerDoc
quote:
If he gives "false testimony concerning a material matter with the willful intent to provide false testimony, rather than as a result of confusion, mistake, or faulty memory,” that's perjury. Bill Clinton was impeached for it.
Trump is not testifying under oath. Just not going to happen.
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:49 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:Okay
Hawkeye95
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:50 pm to Bunyan
quote:That was in a lawsuit that Trump started where he tried to say that the other guy defamed him. The fact that he lied about everything wasn't a legal issue until he tried to take someone else to court in a case about who is more truthful.
Oh my GOD! Trump overpriced his golf clubs 30 years ago! Impeach!
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:50 pm to Hawkeye95
quote:
But the FBI and DOJ does not work for him.
Both agencies are Executive Agencies. Trump is Chief Executive. The FBI and DOJ are not there to be checks on the President. That is Congress' and SCOTUS' job.
So yes, every single person in the DoJ and FBI works for Trump. Just like every single member of the US Military works for him.
Posted on 8/3/17 at 3:50 pm to TigerDoc
Yawn. Good thing ZERO evidence for ANYTHING has been brought forward yet. You would think something would be leaked months ago if they had ANYTHING. Hell, they would have leaked the "bomb" BEFORE the election. Keep looking, though 
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