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Message
re: Someone help me understand
Posted on 7/28/17 at 12:58 pm to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 7/28/17 at 12:58 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
so Obama lied with his "if you like your plan, you can keep it" bullshite
No way, man. It was completely obvious that he meant that you could keep your plan IF IT WAS STILL AVAILABLE AND QUALIFIED UNDER ACA RULES. Clearly, you must be a deplorable if you couldn't see the nuance in what he said...
0
Posted on 7/28/17 at 12:59 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:A hugely misleading statement. Healthcare premium inflation peaked in 2002, then proceeded to precipitously fall from ~15%/yr to about 5%/yr when Obama was elected. Obamacare stopped that decline in its tracks. Instead premium inflation even with subsidy remained at about the level of the final Bush year, provider compensation decreased, and deductibles skyrocketed.
In the ten years prior to the ACA, insurance inflation was +131%.
Posted on 7/28/17 at 1:00 pm to LSUconvert
quote:No!
Wrong!
Not "wrong!"
Posted on 7/28/17 at 1:04 pm to 5thTiger
Wow
5th tiger gets it.
No bill is attempt to reduce costs at the pump.
Pharma
Bills bills bills.
5th tiger gets it.
No bill is attempt to reduce costs at the pump.
Pharma
Bills bills bills.
Posted on 7/28/17 at 1:05 pm to 5thTiger
quote:100% False.
Herein lies your confusion. It didn't. It slowed the rise in costs of medical care.
Posted on 7/28/17 at 1:06 pm to 5thTiger
quote:
But yes, I do know who John Roberts is, and yes, I do know what a tax is.
So, do you understand that if the ACA is NOT a tax but merely a Health Care program it is unconstitutional? The vote was 5-4. Non tax status = ACA is NEVER implemented. Do you understand that?
If so, then WHY is it a tax if it is not increasing premiums on us to pay for them? It is certainly not a 'tax' because Obama called it one to get it passed. It's just the opposite. The attorney's for Obama before the USSC said it was NOT a tax.
Why? Because it was political suicide to say "Hey, America, we're gonna tax your arse to pay for this."
Roberts' ruling was "I understand you don't want to call it a tax. But it is. And, therefore, you can pass it because govt has the right to tax."
Is any of this sinking in?
Posted on 7/28/17 at 1:13 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
quote:
Herein lies your confusion. It didn't. It slowed the rise in costs of medical care.
100% False.
Absolutely what I have been trying to say. He screwed up when he said medical care, instead of medical premiums. If he had said medical premiums, then he would have been right on a technicality...
Posted on 7/28/17 at 1:13 pm to Jax-Tiger
quote:
I found the numbers, and you shouldn't object because it is from The Kaiser Foundation
I'm not. Never have been. What I'm saying,and the data confirms, is that the ACA was/is not the CAUSE of increased costs. The ACA helped slow down the increased costs to Americans. Which was one of the questions posed by the OP.
Posted on 7/28/17 at 1:14 pm to 5thTiger
quote:Maybe if you say it enough it will turn true. Keep trying.
The ACA helped slow down the increased costs to Americans.
Posted on 7/28/17 at 1:15 pm to ODanMan
Because the right wing propaganda on the insurance laws is not in line with reality.
Posted on 7/28/17 at 1:17 pm to Jax-Tiger
quote:Actually no. That is incorrect too. Possibly true of the cost of premiums after subsidy. But the subsidy is being paid for. Just not by recipients.
If he had said medical premiums, then he would have been right on a technicality...
Posted on 7/28/17 at 1:23 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
A hugely misleading statement. Healthcare premium inflation peaked in 2002, then proceeded to precipitously fall from ~15%/yr to about 5%/yr when Obama was elected. Obamacare stopped that decline in its tracks. Instead premium inflation even with subsidy remained at about the level of the final Bush year, provider compensation decreased, and deductibles skyrocketed.
Inflation was still on the rise. And healthcare premium inflation continued to rise much faster then overall inflation.
Healthcare prices themselves fell in 2009, but there is a reason for that, it was called the Great Recession. That point we were in where the dire fear of a deflationary spiral was very real and that could of put us into a depression.
LINK
These trends existed well before the ACA.
Posted on 7/28/17 at 1:27 pm to 5thTiger
quote:
The ACA helped slow down the increased costs to Americans. Which was one of the questions posed by the OP.
Except this is false. Individual premium costs have slowed down, due to subsidies and people switching to high deductible plans. COSTS did not slow down. You're not listening...
Posted on 7/28/17 at 1:27 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
These trends existed well before the ACA.
131% in 10 years v. 500% in 7
Posted on 7/28/17 at 1:27 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
131% in 10 years v. 500% in 7
source*
And lets be clear on what we are looking for for your assertion to be correct, which would be data saying the average family plan is now $66,875 a year.
This post was edited on 7/28/17 at 1:30 pm
Posted on 7/28/17 at 1:27 pm to NC_Tigah
Rich are taxed to pay for poor.
How the poor are addressed is one key.
How the middle class is addressed is the other.
The latest gop bills flushed the poor and rolled back aca tax.
The aca stands.
Two fixes are acomin. Let insurance plans be sold nationally.
That addresses lack of coverage in rural usa.
Socialize purchase of pharma. My allergy med went up by more than 10x in past ten years. Same stuff, generic.
How the poor are addressed is one key.
How the middle class is addressed is the other.
The latest gop bills flushed the poor and rolled back aca tax.
The aca stands.
Two fixes are acomin. Let insurance plans be sold nationally.
That addresses lack of coverage in rural usa.
Socialize purchase of pharma. My allergy med went up by more than 10x in past ten years. Same stuff, generic.
This post was edited on 7/28/17 at 1:29 pm
Posted on 7/28/17 at 1:28 pm to Jax-Tiger
quote:
Except this is false. Individual premium costs have slowed down, due to subsidies and people switching to high deductible plans. COSTS did not slow down.
i assume costs have been pretty consistent, b/c the ACA is nothing more than a cost-shifting policy at heart (with some added market regulations restricting economic choice)
Posted on 7/28/17 at 1:29 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
source*
as posted, that's the increase i have felt since 2010
Posted on 7/28/17 at 1:31 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
as posted, that's the increase i have felt since 2010
So you now pay $66,875 a year for a family plan?
Or are you just hyperbolizing your own experience and claiming it represents society at large?
If you paid $100 a month for full coverage, low deductibles, and no employer cost sharing in 2009, you literally hit the jackpot. But based not he data we have, you are an enormous outlier. Which still leaves the question as to why you think the repeal of ACA would magically get you back to that number? Because it won't.
This post was edited on 7/28/17 at 1:33 pm
Posted on 7/28/17 at 1:32 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Actually no. That is incorrect too. Possibly true of the cost of premiums after subsidy. But the subsidy is being paid for. Just not by recipients.
Which is why I said "on a technicality", which is a way of saying he's using statistics to lie.
In addition, as the premiums get higher, talking about the rate of change is disingenuous, too.
If I paid $1 for something 2 years ago, and the cost went up by a dollar last year, to $2, then the rate of increase in the cost is 100%.
If I then paid $3.50 for the same item this year, the rate of increase is only 75%, even though the total increase was more, I could technically say that the rate of increase has slowed by 25%, even though the cost actually increased was 50%.
There are lies, damned lies, and statistics...
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