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re: So now that Russia is crumbling from within
Posted on 12/17/14 at 12:39 am to beaverfever
Posted on 12/17/14 at 12:39 am to beaverfever
quote:Wow!
Whether he deserves all the credit or not, Obama has put Putin on life support.
So let's keep this really simple. Russia functions more like an oil and gas company than a full fledged national economy. The bottom has fallen out of oil prices. So the bottom fell out of the Russian economy.
So please do give credit where it is due. All credit in the world to those of Obama's policies which were designed to increase North American energy independence. All credit in the world to those of Obama's policies which were designed to increase North American oil, gas, and coal production. What were those policies again?
Because if US energy production actually increased DESPITE Obama's policies, rather than because of them, Obama deserves no credit at all. Quite the contrary. If that's the case, Obama should thank those you-didn't-build-that oil&gas companies for having attained success despite Obama's best efforts to thwart them.
1
Posted on 12/17/14 at 1:39 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
So, to clarify, if something bad is happening, it's all Obama's fault. But if something that could be considered good is happening, then he didn't really have anything to do with it and it's a complicated, multifaceted situation.
That about cover it?
Hitting one home run doesn't make you a home run hitter. On the other hand, sucking one cock does make you a cock sucker.
This post was edited on 12/17/14 at 5:20 am
Posted on 12/17/14 at 3:01 am to S.E.C. Crazy
quote:
You fricking liberal idiot.
All Russia crumbling is going to do is take our economy down with it, set Russia up as desperate which might make them use nukes or other forms of war to strike back at America.
China is in cahoots with Russia and when they sell off the 1.25 trillion in treasury bonds our economy is going to tank via higher interest rates.
Keep thinking the global economy isn't interconnected.
Liberals know nothing about money or economical interchanges.
That train is never late.
Posted on 12/17/14 at 7:42 am to idlewatcher
DC
Why were the sanctions placed? Because they invaded the place to be able to help with the oil production/sales which boost there economy. They knew their economy was failing and were making moves to hold it together. The sanctions sure didn't help them. But they sure haven't "retreated".
They have BEEN in trouble and that is why they became aggressive in getting those territories.
My perception of everything is that the very low oil prices put a crunch on Russia and others who were beginning to not use the dollar as the standard of transactions. Russia was trying to get away from the dollar standard in the oil market....
Now they are fricked. Prime rate over 17%. I wish I could figure a way to set up a loan company with 10% rates over there that didn't use their prime.
As far as Obama, who cares. Before he was in office Russia was our bitch. Obama started his bowing and handjob tour and fricked it all up to begin his term.
See why your dumb, he's the one that allowed Putin to get out of control, then he does sanctions and you claim Obama has helped with an issue he helped create.....geez
Why were the sanctions placed? Because they invaded the place to be able to help with the oil production/sales which boost there economy. They knew their economy was failing and were making moves to hold it together. The sanctions sure didn't help them. But they sure haven't "retreated".
They have BEEN in trouble and that is why they became aggressive in getting those territories.
My perception of everything is that the very low oil prices put a crunch on Russia and others who were beginning to not use the dollar as the standard of transactions. Russia was trying to get away from the dollar standard in the oil market....
Now they are fricked. Prime rate over 17%. I wish I could figure a way to set up a loan company with 10% rates over there that didn't use their prime.
As far as Obama, who cares. Before he was in office Russia was our bitch. Obama started his bowing and handjob tour and fricked it all up to begin his term.
See why your dumb, he's the one that allowed Putin to get out of control, then he does sanctions and you claim Obama has helped with an issue he helped create.....geez
Posted on 12/17/14 at 7:59 am to Draconian Sanctions
I don't see why they should have to apologize.
Also, if there ever was a time to fear another country, it is during a collapse or low point.
This is the time that country's do crazy things.
Also, if there ever was a time to fear another country, it is during a collapse or low point.
This is the time that country's do crazy things.
Posted on 12/17/14 at 8:07 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
HailHail, you didn't know a poster by the name of Toothpick did you? Something about your posts reminds me of him.
Posted on 12/17/14 at 8:16 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
He is a pretty good representation of you people
Posted on 12/17/14 at 8:44 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
They weren't good enough questions to deserve an answer as everything hasn't finished playing out yet.
Posted on 12/17/14 at 9:27 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
I guess you're not familiar with the crippling sanctions that have destroyed their economy?
You want to put Obama on an altar and worship at his feet for making a diplomatic move that any POTUS would?
Every world leader opposed to Putin would, at a minimum, impose economic sanctions. How does that make Obama uniquely worthy of praise?
Sometimes I think that you'd praise him for the outstanding quality of his bowel movements, if you had the opportunity to do so.
Posted on 12/17/14 at 9:28 am to Draconian Sanctions
Hate to tell ya but their economy collapse is just a preview before the global economic collapse which will lead to a one world currency. However I don't believe in the whole nwo takeover or anything like that.
Posted on 12/17/14 at 9:50 am to Champagne
quote:
You want to put Obama on an altar and worship at his feet for making a diplomatic move that any POTUS would?
Putting him on an altar for worship is just silly talk, but there were a lot of Europeans who opposed sanctions due to the reciprocating effect on their economies. Obama played a role in pulling them together, and Russias economy was struggling long before the price of oil plunged asa result.
Should he get "kudos"? sure. He recognized this was a marathon to Putins sprint and was proven correct - so far.
If folks here cannot recognize this as success, they have lost all ability to remove their political lenses and be truely objective.
This post was edited on 12/17/14 at 11:02 am
Posted on 12/17/14 at 10:02 am to BobBoucher
Putin has been aggressive on the international stage for one reason and one reason only... To rally domestic support to mask his failures. He cost the country and private investors billions with the Olympics failure, the economy and markets have been teetering, oil and jingoistic based poll numbers were all he had.
Obama pushed for sanctions when many of our allies opposed them bc of oil dependency. Obama of course deserves praise but the loons would never do so.
These are the same folks who praise Reagan claiming his ridiculous military spending was all part of a plan to break the Soviet Union, and when it fell, under Bush, they credit Reagan.
There is no doubt that if Reagan or any Rep would have done what Obama has and Russia go into this tailspin, they be naming airports after him.
Obama pushed for sanctions when many of our allies opposed them bc of oil dependency. Obama of course deserves praise but the loons would never do so.
These are the same folks who praise Reagan claiming his ridiculous military spending was all part of a plan to break the Soviet Union, and when it fell, under Bush, they credit Reagan.
There is no doubt that if Reagan or any Rep would have done what Obama has and Russia go into this tailspin, they be naming airports after him.
Posted on 12/17/14 at 10:09 am to Draconian Sanctions
Because of sanctions? Really?
Any president in charge would have followed through with the same sanctions.
I believe you could argue that a lot of presidents would have flexed muscle and set the record straight a lot quicker than Barack did. He is a child when it comes to the world stage.
People act like he crippled the leading economy of the world within six months. It isn't like they were all that great to start with.
Edit: The fact that any president gets so adored by the public, on either party side, is ridiculous. But the Obama lovers have taken it to an entirely new level. At least Reagan did something in his times.
Any president in charge would have followed through with the same sanctions.
I believe you could argue that a lot of presidents would have flexed muscle and set the record straight a lot quicker than Barack did. He is a child when it comes to the world stage.
People act like he crippled the leading economy of the world within six months. It isn't like they were all that great to start with.
Edit: The fact that any president gets so adored by the public, on either party side, is ridiculous. But the Obama lovers have taken it to an entirely new level. At least Reagan did something in his times.
This post was edited on 12/17/14 at 10:11 am
Posted on 12/17/14 at 10:11 am to Draconian Sanctions
I would like to thank Sarah Palin and her "Drill Baby, Drill Campaign" too.
Posted on 12/17/14 at 10:46 am to Vegas Bengal
quote:
Putin has been aggressive on the international stage for one reason and one reason only... To rally domestic support to mask his failures. He cost the country and private investors billions with the Olympics failure, the economy and markets have been teetering, oil and jingoistic based poll numbers were all he had.
Obama pushed for sanctions when many of our allies opposed them bc of oil dependency. Obama of course deserves praise but the loons would never do so.
These are the same folks who praise Reagan claiming his ridiculous military spending was all part of a plan to break the Soviet Union, and when it fell, under Bush, they credit Reagan.
There is no doubt that if Reagan or any Rep would have done what Obama has and Russia go into this tailspin, they be naming airports after him.
I give Obama credit for not getting involved militarily. That was a good "non-call." Of course that is an easy decision, but some right-wingers might have screwed that up.
I have seen little evidence that the sanctions are having any real affect. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt they affecting Russia "at the margins."
The real effect is low oil prices which Obama's policies have actively opposed. The only thing saving us here is Obama's incompetence. Hard to give him credit for being so incompetent so as to prevent real damage being done.
So credit for a layup on the military, minor marginal kudos for the sanctions and a "thanks for not being more competant" on the oil prices.
NOW that said. If it later gets out that he is in cahoots with the Saudis to lower oil prices to crush Russia, Iran AND ISIS---> then I will retroactively revise my statement to call him a major bad-arse on this issue. That would be some super-strategic chess playing there. I am personally hoping that is the case.
Posted on 12/17/14 at 11:02 am to Draconian Sanctions
i just saw this comment on facebook
a lesson in why media matters, matters, i suppose
quote:
Now that the Russian economy is collapsing, where are all the Fox News pundits who praised Putin??
a lesson in why media matters, matters, i suppose
Posted on 12/17/14 at 11:04 am to BigJim
quote:
I have seen little evidence that the sanctions are having any real affect
If you dont want to look you wont find it, but prior to oil collapse there was hundreds of millions in capital flight alone.
That is significant.
Posted on 12/17/14 at 11:05 am to Samso
quote:
Solid thread.
Eh. About par for the course for the OP.
Posted on 12/17/14 at 11:12 am to BobBoucher
quote:
If you dont want to look you wont find it, but prior to oil collapse there was hundreds of millions in capital flight alone.
That is significant.
Because of the sanctions? Or because Russia has a crappy economy and western business didn't want to get their money trapped in it?
I think you will find that capital was fleeing the country even before the sanctions. Not so much from Crimea, the conflict in western Ukraine (and the flight getting shot down) spooked business, as it should.
The sanctions have been VERY mild up to this point (though that may be changing soon due the the bi-partisan bill out of congress).
I am not saying the sanctions are not having any affect, just that I think you would have seen most of Russia's current problems without them.
It's like if Mike Tyson and I go beat some third guy up. Sure I might get in some hits; but we all know who is really laying the smack down.
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