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re: Slavery was not the only issue the South was fighting for

Posted on 8/20/17 at 9:53 pm to
Posted by cwill
Member since Jan 2005
54752 posts
Posted on 8/20/17 at 9:53 pm to
quote:

is not a strawman.


A popular term on this board that is maybe understood and properly used less than half the time.
Posted by mofungoo
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2012
4583 posts
Posted on 8/20/17 at 10:02 pm to
quote:

So. fricking. What.

quote:

Wrong is wrong. Falling on a particular spot on our historical timeline doesn't change that.

So. fricking. What.

Slavery was legal in our country, and was a world-wide institution at that time. Our country was not the only one that allowed slavery. This was over 150 years ago. Settle down, dude. Slavery has been abolished. Sheesh.

MAGA
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
71662 posts
Posted on 8/20/17 at 10:06 pm to
quote:

was
quote:

was


Indeed.
Posted by noonan
Nassau Bay, TX
Member since Aug 2005
36903 posts
Posted on 8/20/17 at 10:12 pm to
quote:

Wrong is wrong


That's not exactly relevant. Because back then it wasn't "wrong".
This post was edited on 8/20/17 at 10:13 pm
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
71662 posts
Posted on 8/20/17 at 10:14 pm to
quote:

That's not exactly relevant. Because back then it wasn't "wrong".


It's always been wrong to own other people.
Posted by noonan
Nassau Bay, TX
Member since Aug 2005
36903 posts
Posted on 8/20/17 at 10:22 pm to
It's like talking to a child
Posted by geauxbrown
Louisiana
Member since Oct 2006
19451 posts
Posted on 8/20/17 at 10:22 pm to
quote:

Yeah and then they killed a bunch of actual Americans


Yeah, when the "actual" Americans invaded Virginia. If the Army of the Potomac doesn't cross that river, no one dies. Lincoln could have easily blockaded the Confederacy out of existence without firing a bullet.
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
71662 posts
Posted on 8/20/17 at 10:25 pm to
quote:

It's like talking to a child


Agreed, but your parents should have taught you right and wrong, not me.
Posted by geauxbrown
Louisiana
Member since Oct 2006
19451 posts
Posted on 8/20/17 at 10:26 pm to
quote:

It's always been wrong to own other people


Totally agree, but just like folks believed that smoking actually had health benefits, slavery was an institution. Here's what I don't understand. Why is it that Americans are the only folks on earth still pissed about slavery? I mean, I don't see Europeans wearing shirts that read.....kill the Romans.
This post was edited on 8/20/17 at 10:28 pm
Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
71662 posts
Posted on 8/20/17 at 10:36 pm to
Maybe because there aren't Romans rolling around Europe saying "get over it, we didn't know it was wrong to own people back then."

Or, maybe it's just been separated by enough time.
Posted by INFIDEL
The couch
Member since Aug 2006
16199 posts
Posted on 8/20/17 at 10:39 pm to
My limited understanding of Gen Lee was that was the only reason he fought for the south. He actually hated the institution of slavery. People were loyal to their states before the were loyal their country.
Posted by Seldom Seen
Member since Feb 2016
40133 posts
Posted on 8/20/17 at 10:41 pm to
quote:

One of the biggest ideals was "state's rights," which is guaranteed by the constitution.



Yup defending the homeland from yankee aggression and fighting for states rights!


We waz freedom fighterz n shite!
Posted by INFIDEL
The couch
Member since Aug 2006
16199 posts
Posted on 8/20/17 at 10:44 pm to
quote:

It's always been wrong to own other people.


when looking at it in present context, you are completely correct. Thats why we no longer practice slavery. It was a horrible institution that needed to go, but back then it was normal practice. It is still normal practice in other parts of the world like Africa. We know it's wrong, them, not so much
Posted by mofungoo
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2012
4583 posts
Posted on 8/20/17 at 10:46 pm to
quote:

We waz freedom fighterz n shite!

Who had kangs working for them.

Posted by DisplacedBuckeye
Member since Dec 2013
71662 posts
Posted on 8/20/17 at 10:48 pm to
quote:

but back then it was normal practice


Everyone is aware of this. It means very little. "It was normal back then" is a poor reason to defend those actions today.
Posted by mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Member since Nov 2015
35503 posts
Posted on 8/20/17 at 10:50 pm to
quote:

One of the biggest ideals was "state's rights," which is guaranteed by the constitution. This seems to have been forgotten (or never learned).






Kids in the South were issued pamphlets in the mail about "state's rights" during the re-imagining and romancticism of ante-bellum South during the late 19th century revisionist Southern writers.

And it still holds water to this day. It's the oldest fallacy in American politics.

If it was about State's rights, why did the Confedarcy ban the outlawing of slavery among all Confederate States.

Surely, they loved State's rights so much, they'd allow Virginia to ban slavery years later if they so chose? A rigth for a State to choose, right?

Nope, slavery shall be forever said the Confed Constition and no State of the Confederacy can ever ban slavery.

The Confederacy became the biggest dictatorship compared to the Union when it came to laws and toeing the line and people still talk about State's rights. :rotflmao:
This post was edited on 8/20/17 at 10:52 pm
Posted by Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
19230 posts
Posted on 8/20/17 at 10:50 pm to
quote:

It's always been wrong to own other people.


While we consider slavery immoral now, it was normal throughout antiquity and well into modern period. Our attitudes, are somewhat unique, historically.
Posted by INFIDEL
The couch
Member since Aug 2006
16199 posts
Posted on 8/20/17 at 10:51 pm to
Its not about defending them. We know it was wrong. Like child labor was wrong. Like blood sports was wrong. Like not allowing women right were wrong. But if youre going to explore history you have to interpret it by using era appropriate thinking and understanding.
Posted by mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Member since Nov 2015
35503 posts
Posted on 8/20/17 at 10:53 pm to
Of all the state governments that published “declarations of the causes of secession” like these (some published shorter “ordinances of secession”), none mentioned the ostensible injustices of America’s tariff system. None complained of high taxes, or even states’ rights in a general sense. All, however, passionately pontificated on the necessity of preserving an institution of slavery; and that no such preservation could be maintained within the Union as it was then organized. Ironically, secession, and the creation of a Confederacy was the only conceivable way of maintaining the status quo.
Posted by mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Member since Nov 2015
35503 posts
Posted on 8/20/17 at 10:56 pm to
The South’s real concern in the antebellum period was that states and territories in the North and West were passing state laws aimed at undermining the federal fugitive slave laws, and that new states would choose to join the Union as free states. Those jurisdictions wanted to retain the right to determine whether people could be slaves within their state boundaries—as opposed to the federal government making such laws.

But the South was all about State's rights!!!!! What a crock of shite.

They were about presevering slavery at all costs.

The South’s distain for states’ rights can be seen in the Constitution’s Fugitive Slave Clause (the less famous cousin to the Three-Fifths Clause, which boosted federal representation from slave states), the Fugitive Slave Act of 1793, the Missouri Compromise of 1820, and the 1850 Compromise. All were federal actions aimed at controlling northern states. The South did not return the North’s favor: before the Civil War, no attempts to ban slavery even made it to a vote on the floor of Congress.



The South was the biggest aggressor against state's rights because they knew with more states being admitted they were losing their cause and losing all their political power...over, slavery.

People who buy the State's rights argument are fricking moronic and brainwashed by revisionist grand-pappies who felt ashamed.
This post was edited on 8/20/17 at 10:58 pm
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