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School Choice Discussion
Posted on 1/24/17 at 8:29 am
Posted on 1/24/17 at 8:29 am
In light of the current Sec of Education nominee's support of school choice, I wanted to gain some more insight into it. I think the idea of school choice is fine, but the implementation of it seems a bit tricky. I went to a town hall a couple of years ago on school choice, and while most there I think supported it, I left with the impression the mostly white attendees supported it as long as their schools were not the choice of those students looking for a better opportunity. One lady in particular got up and said she supported school choice, but worried about the drugs and violence students from inner-city schools would bring to her kids' school. A lot of heads in the crowd were nodding in agreement.
So my initial question is what happens in a scenario when a kid from an inner-city school wishes to attend a different school, but no other school will take him? Will schools be required to accept any student? How does that work if a school is already at enrollment capacity? How does a school plan for staffing needs to meet a potential increase in students? What about in rural areas where there is no other choice but a private school?
The town hall I went to didn't really answer any of these questions. It seemed more like an opportunity for suburban parents to voice their concern over what type of students may come to their kids' schools.
So my initial question is what happens in a scenario when a kid from an inner-city school wishes to attend a different school, but no other school will take him? Will schools be required to accept any student? How does that work if a school is already at enrollment capacity? How does a school plan for staffing needs to meet a potential increase in students? What about in rural areas where there is no other choice but a private school?
The town hall I went to didn't really answer any of these questions. It seemed more like an opportunity for suburban parents to voice their concern over what type of students may come to their kids' schools.
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Posted on 1/24/17 at 8:33 am to The Spleen
quote:
Will schools be required to accept any student?
Of course not - that's the point - the market forces are returning. Can they reject a kid because he's black, Jewish or Asian? Of course not. Can they kick a little a-hole out at the drop of a hat because he's violent, on drugs, disruptive or otherwise not abiding by the code of conduct (regardless of his/her race, creed, religion, etc.)? You bet your sweet Aunt Mary's arse.
That's the point - the troubled kids will end up in redirectional programs until/if they decide to go the institutional route. The decent kids will get left alone and get a good education.
Public schools are rampant with PC culture, mushy headed "academic" programs and generally just Marxist indoctrination. Of course those schools will continue to exist in the post-school choice era, but all schools will then be judged on performance - all parents ultimately want the best education for their children.
Posted on 1/24/17 at 8:34 am to The Spleen
The only downside is to the tens of millions of families who have purposely raised their kids in a bubble.
Oh no! A black kid at school!
Oh no! A black kid at school!
Posted on 1/24/17 at 8:39 am to The Spleen
School choice is a shell game. If you are the school of choice (SoC), you are not required to let anyone in. You can screen who gets into your school to fill the seats. Therefore, the failing school's best students leave. What is left? A school that is in total dysfunction with it's worst students. SoC does not address how to fix the left behind school. While a few kids do benefit others are left behind.
Also, the cost of school of choice is never talked about. You have to bus these kids to and from that school. In a more rural parish like West Baton Rouge, the fuel cost of bringing bus loads of kids from Port Allen and Plaquemine to Brusly adds up.
It would be far better for kids to remain in their school and fix it from within. They live in the community. Communities needs to rally behind their school and fix the problem themselves, not let gov't fix it for them.
Also, the cost of school of choice is never talked about. You have to bus these kids to and from that school. In a more rural parish like West Baton Rouge, the fuel cost of bringing bus loads of kids from Port Allen and Plaquemine to Brusly adds up.
It would be far better for kids to remain in their school and fix it from within. They live in the community. Communities needs to rally behind their school and fix the problem themselves, not let gov't fix it for them.
Posted on 1/24/17 at 8:40 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
Can they reject a kid because he's black, Jewish or Asian? Of course not.
Sure, but my concern is they'll find another way. Like claiming their enrollment is at capacity. Or being very selective on who they accept. My impression is the school choice advocates feel the choice should be up to the student and parent, not the school. So if a mom wants to send her kid to any school in town, she can. But I didn't get the impression the parents at the town hall I went to were on board with that. Maybe I'm not understanding the way it'd work though.
Posted on 1/24/17 at 8:44 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
That's the point - the troubled kids will end up in redirectional programs until/if they decide to go the institutional route. The decent kids will get left alone and get a good education.
Hopefully, this would encourage parents to care more about their kid's behavior and invest more time in them as well.
Posted on 1/24/17 at 8:45 am to CoachChappy
You attach a big ole voucher to every child and schools will spring up to fill every need just like higher education institutions that take GI bill "vouchers" and grocery stores that take food stamps.
Posted on 1/24/17 at 8:45 am to The Spleen
Back when I was in high school in Louisiana, many years ago, a student could transfer to any public high school in the city as long as they went from being a majority to a minority. So a black student could transfer from a majority black school to a majority white school with no issues. I don't know how the busing worked for that.
This was also the same time period that magnet schools started and allowed students, regardless of race, to cross school districts based on academics and "arts".
Not exactly sure how the "public to private" issue works, but I am sure it is much more selective from the private school standpoint.
This was also the same time period that magnet schools started and allowed students, regardless of race, to cross school districts based on academics and "arts".
Not exactly sure how the "public to private" issue works, but I am sure it is much more selective from the private school standpoint.
Posted on 1/24/17 at 8:46 am to BigEdLSU
quote:
Oh no! A black kid at school!
Yeah, that's pretty much what a lot of the parents were alluding to at the town hall I attended.
Posted on 1/24/17 at 8:47 am to CoachChappy
quote:
School choice is a shell game. If you are the school of choice (SoC), you are not required to let anyone in. You can screen who gets into your school to fill the seats. Therefore, the failing school's best students leave. What is left? A school that is in total dysfunction with it's worst students. SoC does not address how to fix the left behind school. While a few kids do benefit others are left behind. Also, the cost of school of choice is never talked about. You have to bus these kids to and from that school. In a more rural parish like West Baton Rouge, the fuel cost of bringing bus loads of kids from Port Allen and Plaquemine to Brusly adds up. It would be far better for kids to remain in their school and fix it from within. They live in the community. Communities needs to rally behind their school and fix the problem themselves, not let gov't fix it for them.
Why are the left behind students so bad? Why would you "have to" provide busing?
Posted on 1/24/17 at 8:48 am to I B Freeman
quote:
You attach a big ole voucher to every child and schools will spring up to fill every need just like higher education institutions that take GI bill "vouchers" and grocery stores that take food stamps.
That's laughably incorrect. The students will be screened and the SoC will only take as many kids as they can seat or want to seat. That MFP money only goes so far per kid. Furthermore, integrating kids from other cities into another high school causes all kinds of social issues among the school. I've worked in a school of choice, the disciplinarian spent most of his to time dealing with kids from the other cities in our school bringing in their drama. It's not worth the MFP money we get for each kid.
Posted on 1/24/17 at 8:50 am to Dawgfanman
quote:
Why are the left behind students so bad?
The reason kids are allowed to leave that school for a school of choice is, because they attend a failing school.
quote:
Why would you "have to" provide busing?
It's the law.
Posted on 1/24/17 at 8:54 am to Oddibe
quote:
Not exactly sure how the "public to private" issue works, but I am sure it is much more selective from the private school standpoint.
Alabama has one of these in place. Parents get a tax credit to cover private school tuition if their kid is zoned for a failing school. There tax credit is only like $2000 though, so it doesn't even cover most private school tuition. There are also a few different trust funds people can donate to that award scholarships.
It's kind of being exposed as a scam as most beneficiaries were already sending their kids to private school. Last report I read said only around 150 kids statewide had moved from a public to private school under the program.
Posted on 1/24/17 at 8:54 am to BigEdLSU
If it were up to me, I'd remove the mandate that kids must attend school. I'd also tie governtment assistance into having a job.
Therefore, if you want assistance, you'll be motivated to attend and do well in school. If you drop out, assistance is considerably harder to get.
I'd open free soup kitchens also, we won't let you starve, we'll feed you, that's it.
Therefore, if you want assistance, you'll be motivated to attend and do well in school. If you drop out, assistance is considerably harder to get.
I'd open free soup kitchens also, we won't let you starve, we'll feed you, that's it.
Posted on 1/24/17 at 8:55 am to CoachChappy
quote:
Therefore, the failing school's best students leave. What is left? A school that is in total dysfunction with it's worst students. SoC does not address how to fix the left behind school. While a few kids do benefit others are left behind.
Why is it fair for the "good" ones that want to learn to be prevented from doing so because the "bad" ones can't act like human beings.
Posted on 1/24/17 at 8:57 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
Ace Midnight
Excellent reply. As mentioned in a previous thread, my kids go to a Catholic schools. There's strict enrollment guidelines and admission is very selective. I MUCH prefer it that way!
I pay through the nose for that. That's my choice. There are several black kids that go to school with them. Their parents pay through their noses to send their kids there. That's their choice as well. Those same black parents are very vocal about what kids attend school there and I can assure those parents would have NO problem whipping their kids asses if they were disruptive. Same for the white parents. Why? But guess what? They don't have any problems because the parents are involved with everything the kids do and we don't sit around waiting for others, specifically the government, to carry our load. It's our choice to PAY for our kids to go to "a private school of choice" and not have to worry about disruptive kids that have no need or reason to be in ANY school.
The sneaky libs are worried about losing any sort of tax money to support garbage. That's the end result for them. They want hard working parents to support their "bad habits" is what it amounts to. It's the usual liberal way of doing things. What's theirs is theirs and what's yours is theirs mentality.
This post was edited on 1/24/17 at 9:04 am
Posted on 1/24/17 at 9:03 am to The Spleen
I'm not going to get to personal here but a St. Tammany school failed my son... Fortunately I had to means(not without sacrifice) to put him in private school.
Actually the first private school didn't work out. He was struggling to keep up and more than willing to leave him behind.
The second private school was willing to work with him and now a stellar student bringing home A's in math and science.
But to your point about accepting students... the only reason the 2nd private school took him was that his conduct record was perfect.
I was able to use the market and the school kept it standards. The voucher system should work the same way for good students being failed by the system. In a voucher system why should a schools standards be diminished?
The current system craps all over those potential good student but don't have the means or parents willing to sacrifice to remove their kids from destructive schools.
Actually the first private school didn't work out. He was struggling to keep up and more than willing to leave him behind.
The second private school was willing to work with him and now a stellar student bringing home A's in math and science.
But to your point about accepting students... the only reason the 2nd private school took him was that his conduct record was perfect.
I was able to use the market and the school kept it standards. The voucher system should work the same way for good students being failed by the system. In a voucher system why should a schools standards be diminished?
The current system craps all over those potential good student but don't have the means or parents willing to sacrifice to remove their kids from destructive schools.
Posted on 1/24/17 at 9:05 am to Janky
quote:
Why is it fair for the "good" ones that want to learn to be prevented from doing so because the "bad" ones can't act like human beings.
It's not. SoC is one of the options to attempt to fix this, and in theory, it's a great idea. In practice, it doesn't work very well if at all.
Posted on 1/24/17 at 9:07 am to CoachChappy
quote:
In practice, it doesn't work very well if at all.
For whom?
Posted on 1/24/17 at 9:11 am to 31TIGERS
quote:
The sneaky libs are worried about losing any sort of tax money to support garbage.
The great thing about the market is that - if you want to take your school choice voucher to a liberal school, that doesn't spank, has safe spaces and trigger warnings? You CAN - if that school exists and is financially viable.
Ditto for a school with a strict dress code or strict conduct code. Heck, military K-12 schools will flourish because some folks like that. I would hope that some of those get some exemptions to be single gender - I can see that maybe being a problem. But, as long as they can point to a comparable single gender (the other way) program, they should be fine.
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