re: Satanic Temple puts up display at Michigan Capital

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I'm of the view that there really isn't any such thing as an agnostic.

To me, one believes or one does not believe.

If one says they are "agnostic" then by definition, they do not fall into the former.

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I think we are talking past each other somewhat.

Until the moment you pick up that shell it is just a belief.

In that present moment and thereafter where the ball was is a fact.

1/1000th of a second before you verify it, it is still just a belief.

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Let's consider a drug test. Bob smoked weed last week and none of his coworkers know it. They don't think he smokes weed because he doesn't seem like the type. Bob gets called in for a drug test. It's a fact that he smoked weed and will fail the test, but his coworkers believe that he will pass. "Belief" and "fact" don't necessarily have to occupy distinct moments in time. There can be a fact, and a belief about the fact. At least that's how I look at it.

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In this scenario it is a belief that Bob will fail his drug test. Until the results are verified at a distinct moment in time it is just a belief. I guess the better example is just the shell game, because it leaves out little complications like the possibility of a false negative on a drug test. Let's go back to the shell game. The person moving the shells knows the ball is under the second shell, because he intentionally moved it there. It's a fact that the ball is under the second shell. I believe the ball is under the third shell, because unbeknownst to me, the shell-mover used sleight of hand to trick me into thinking that's where it went. I have a belief, that happens to be false, that the ball is under the third shell. The fact is, known to the shell-mover, that the ball is under the second shell. The fact and the false belief exist contemporaneously. I think I've explained my thoughts as clearly as I can, so I'll make this my last post about it.

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I guess the better example is just the shell game, because it leaves out little complications like the possibility of a false negative on a drug test. Let's go back to the shell game.

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To me, there is literally no evidence in existence for any God as good as seeing the ball go under one of the shells.

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My favorite illustrative quote on the matter is, “If atheism is a belief, then NOT collecting stamps is a hobby.”

This is a good analogy

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"Agnostic atheist" is similar to the term "politically correct." If something is correct one need not modify the term. To say something is politically correct is actually to say it isn't correct at all. One can certainly be an agnostic with atheist leanings. That is the view you are trying to express. But either one is atheist or one is an agnostic variant. Sorry. But, as you say, it's a matter of the English language.

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